For years I’ve been trying to reduce moisture accumulation in my wintering hives. Then last summer, after much reading about Warré hives, I decided to modify a Warré-style quilt box into something that might work on my Langstroths here in the Pacific Northwest.
I spent quite a while thinking about this and a long time building the quilts, but at this point I am ecstatic about the results. They are really working—no moisture at all is dripping down on my bees. The funny thing is this: the quilts are working in a way that is different from what I predicted—but more on that in a bit.
Here is what I did:
- I bought a bunch of two-inch supers that were designed to be used as mountain camp rims.
- Using a one-inch hole saw, I drilled four holes in each frame for ventilation.
- After I painted the frames, I stapled a piece of #10 hardware cloth over each hole to keep out critters.
- I bought canvas by the yard, cut pieces to fit the frames, and finished the edges so they wouldn’t fray.
- I stapled one piece of canvas onto each rim, stretching it as tightly as I could.
- I filled each “quilt” with wood chips leftover from brood rearing (chicken brood rearing, that is.)
- I put one quilt frame on each hive. In most cases I placed it above the top brood box and below the telescoping cover. In some of the hives it is above a mountain camp rim and below the telescoping cover.
For some reason my brain was muddled on the next point. I thought the moisture would wet the quilt from the bottom up. In other words, I thought the warm moist air would rise and condense on the canvas and wood chips nearest the brood nest. So I was surprised and confused the first time I opened the hives and discovered that just the top layer of wood chips was wet and the rest of the quilt was dry.
Now that I have de-muddled, it all makes sense. The wood chips are light, fluffy, and basically the same temperature as the air above the brood nest, so the moist air does not condense on the wood chips at all. Instead, the humid air rises and goes right through the canvas and the two inches of wood chips until it hits the cold inner surface of the telescoping cover. Once it hits that cold surface, the moisture condenses (just like in a regular hive) and then rains back down. But instead of the drops falling on the brood nest, they land on the wood chips and are absorbed. It is just so cool!
I’ve opened all my hives several times since I installed the quilts and in each case the inside of the telescoping cover and the top layer of wood chips have been wet. When I stir the chips, it is easy to see that only the surface layer is wet because the wet chips are a yellowish-brown color compared to the dry ones which are almost white.
My original plan was to change the wood chips whenever the quilt became saturated, but so far I haven’t had to. It seems the ventilation holes are allowing the chips to dry in spite of all the rain. The moisture hasn’t seeped down more than one-quarter inch.
While building the quilts I was worried that the 2-inch super would be too shallow, but it seems to be about right for this climate. I think that a very cold climate would warrant a thicker layer—perhaps a three-inch rim like those used for baggie feeders.
I should also mention that the four ventilation holes are providing the sole top-of-the-hive ventilation for each hive. Four holes may seem like a lot, but the canvas and the wood chips prevent a cold draft from flowing across the bees—the air movement is more diffuse because of the quilt. I keep a very small entrance in winter, but I have the Varroa drawers removed so air flows in through the bottom of the hive and out through the ventilation holes.
Rusty
First I drilled holes in the supers.
I painted the supers inside and out.
I stapled hardware cloth over the inside of the holes.
After finishing the edges, I stapled the canvas to the rims.
Finished quilt box from inside.
Quilt box filled with wood chips.
RT @HoneyBeeSuite: [New Post] How to make a moisture quilt for a Langstroth hive http://www.honeybeesuite.com/?p=2751 #beekeeping #bees
Thank you so much for sharing this and including the pictures. Every time I read somewhere about a quilt I picture something similar to what is on our beds. Soft and flimsy. But this makes so much more sense. This is easier to construct and maintain than what I was imagining. I’m encouraged by your success as well. Thanks again. I love your blog and everything you share here. Keep it up!
RT @HoneyBeeSuite: [New Post] How to make a moisture quilt for a Langstroth hive http://www.honeybeesuite.com/?p=2751 #beekeeping #bees
You’re going to sell these, right?
I had the same idea, made four using shallow supers. I appreciated the additional information about the moisture, please post your results in the spring.
So far my bees seem to be doing great with the bee quilts I put in place.
Mike,
That’s great; I’m glad to hear they are working for you. So far, my bees are looking good. We had a warm day last week and all the hives were busy.
I will definitely post my results and observations at the end of winter. Thanks for asking.
Could you please advise what type of canvass material
you used for the ‘quilts’. Thanks
Freda,
I don’t know what weight the canvas was, but when I went to the fabric store I bought the lightest weight all-purpose canvas that they had. It is 100% cotton with no dyes. A heavier canvas would have worked just as well; I don’t think the weight matters that much.
I cut it to size, then finished the edges with an overcast stitch. Then I stretched it as tightly as I could across the bottom of the super before I stapled it.
These moisture quilts have worked unbelievably well. They eliminated all the winter moisture problems I used to have, and I have managed to go all winter without changing the wood chips.
You can also use jute (gunny sack) material for the quilt bottom. I think what was used here is like a duck cloth. Check out http://thebeespace.net for what Nick H. in Oregon used for his. Jute can be obtained either online or a good feed/hardware store. I save the seams for using in the smoker or to stuff an entrance if moving a hive.
For the topbar cloth in the Warre fashion, I just make a wheat flour paste and brush the jute and hang on the line to dry. Keeps the bees from chewing, but they’ll propolise this.
I live in Interior Alaska, and have since have gone to Warres, but have converted my deep Langs into either end tables, apiary stands, or cut down into feeder ekes and the like for my Warres. My leftover Lang stuff I set up as bait hives, but have the quilt box element and a sump for the bottoms for them now.
Margie,
Where can I read more about keeping “Alaskan” bees?
Paul
Clearwater, Florida
[...] deadly cold water on the bees. I read on an one the of most informative beekeeping sites on the web http://www.honeybeesuite.com about this moisture quilt box that was easy to build and could prevent it. Here are a few pics of [...]
What goes first, the inner cover or the quilt?
Manuel,
Put the quilt box on top of the brood box. Put the inner cover on top of the quilt.
If you are using a baggie feeder, it goes between the brood box and the quilt. So, brood box, baggie feeder, quilt box, inner cover, outer cover.
How do the bees get out for a cleansing flight this way then?
The regular way, through their front opening. Nothing is changed down there.
Quilt question.
I have built my wood vented inner covers with a 3/16″ bee space so bees can go over top the top bars and move freely from between the top of the brood box and inner cover. If I build the quilts as you suggest then the canvas will rest on top of the brood frame top bars, correct? If yes, then did I build my inner covers wrong with the top bee space, or does it matter you think?
Hi Judd,
I’m a little confused–maybe I don’t understand the question. The moisture quilt would go above the brood box but below the inner cover. Because the quilts can sag a bit, I usually put either a 3-inch feeder rim (eke) or a 1-inch Imirie shim between the brood box and the quilt. So directly above the brood box is the feeder (or shim), then the quilt, then the inner cover, then the outer cover.
The feeder gives the bees plenty of room to move around and solves the sagging problem. The bee space sounds perfect for summer, but the bees won’t be using that space in the winter if you use quilts.
Rusty,
Just found your site a week or so ago, and have been a regular nightly visitor. Thank you very much for this great resource.
I made these quilts for my hives, but I am worried about the fact that the rolled and stapled edges of the fabric on the bottom of the quilt keeps a tight seal from being made between the brood box rim and the rim of the quilt . . . and what about sagging over time . . . if the fabric contacts the brood box top bars, wouldn’t that create a barrier preventing the bees from staying in a cluster as they moved around the hive for food?
Joel,
The fabric itself forms a seal between the brood box and the quilt box, sort of like the cotton caulking they once used in ships. The fabric is soft so it deflects from the weight of the lid and makes a tight seal. I never had a problem with it, although I did keep my hem as thin as possible by zigzagging the cut edges rather than rolling them. Still, I think it will work just fine.
I like to keep a 3-inch feeder rim between the brood box and the quilt. This gives me a place to put candy cakes or dry sugar as the winter progresses, and makes some “sag space” for the quilt. For less sagging you can insert a cross bar in the center of the quilt box, which is what I’m planning on doing for my top-bar hive.
Rusty,
Thanks for the reply! I can’t wait to try these things out . . . I have a cousin who is president of the local bee club and my mentor, and he’s curious about how these will work before he makes some for his 30-plus hives. I’m the guinea-pig here.
I have some baggy feeder rims that I drilled holes in and covered with hardware cloth earlier this year to use for ventilation during the heat of the summer here. They look exactly like what you are using for your quilts. Instead of building more rims, I’m going to cut and fit some dense pieces of Styrofoam in the holes and cover with aluminum tape to seal out the weather . . . hopefully this will work.
Joel,
Remember that it’s the ventilation holes that allow the canvas and wood chips to dry out. Without ventilation holes the quilts won’t work properly.
Hi, Rusty -
I understand about the ventilation . . . it makes sense when you read the whole original post . . . again, I am really excited to try these out, and appreciate very much you sharing this. As a first year beekeeper, I am really nervous about getting these 4 hives through the winter in good shape . . .
Living here in Tennessee, you cant help but understand the importance of ventilation when it comes to your livestock. The summers here are boiling with 100 degree days and humidity you can actually see in the air. I am completely serious when I say that even our milk goats have their own ceiling fan in the barn!
The rims I used during the summer for ventilation are still on the hives, sitting between the inner cover and the telescoping cover. Currently they have just had one hole open, however.
We have had a string of nights in the mid 30′s, so I have winterized the hives the traditional way (entrance reducer, flipped inner cover, closed screened bottom boards) with the exception of extra ventilation via the rims.
The quilts I built have screened holes in them, just as in your photograph, with the exception being I built mine with two 1.5 inch screened holes rather than the 4 you use . . . reading some of your other posts, it seems our winters get a bit colder than yours with many nights in the upper twenties and some in the low teens.
My plan is to remove the ventilation rims, cover their holes with Styrofoam and tape, then use them as rims to set the ventilated quilts on to prevent possible sagging blocking the tops of the frames . . . it’ll just save me spending an afternoon going through scrap lumber and knocking together more rims.
I wonder if instead of using rails across the bottoms to prevent sagging, maybe hardware cloth could be used? Say by creating a small ledge or rim on the INSIDE of the quilts, stapling the hardware cloth to it then covering the bottom with cloth . . . that way the wood chips rest on the hardware cloth which won’t sag, and the cloth on the bottom not only seals the bottom, but any condensation that might be caused by using metal hardware cloth would be kept from the bees by being caught or absorbed by the cloth . . .
What do you think? Don’t know if I have been clear . . . maybe I could knock one together and take photos?
Joel
Joel,
I understand completely what you are saying. I was thinking of trying hardware cloth instead of canvas cloth on some of my quilts this year but I was afraid of condensation on the metal. I never thought of using both of them together. That’s an idea that might work.
I live in a USDA hardiness zone 8. If you look at a hardiness zone map, you can see how similar your low temperatures are to mine.
I’m also building a quilt inspired by your website. It occurred to me that the sagging problem could be addressed by using foundation wire across the bottom of the quilt – maybe two strands in each direction. What do you think?
Good idea. I’ve been thinking about the sagging problem and have run across several possible solutions. I’ll put them altogether in a separate post.
Hello Rusty,
First time posting but stumbled on your site mid-summer. Thanks for the site and all the info. This was my first year keeping bees and I tried something similar to your quilt idea last spring and will use it this winter. I cut a hole approx. 5″x5″ in the inner cover. Stapled some wire screen over the hole. Put the inner cover on. Put a medium super on. Bought some polyester pillow cases, filled them with pine shavings and laid them in the medium super.
Made an “eke” with vent holes (holes covered with wire screen). Placed the “eke” on the medium super and then put my outer cover on. Of course I had no idea it was called an eke, I figured it was a cobbled up solution to a problem. I think it gave the girls a leg up on their honey journey. Of the 4 hives, 1 allowed me to harvest about 150 lbs., 2 produced approx 200 each of which I left for them to enjoy this winter, and 1 got demolished by a bear. I think he really enjoyed the honey because he tried getting to the hives a couple more times without any success. I went foundationless, seemed to work ok. I reside in north western Wisconsin. I am excited for year number 2. Thanks again for your site. Very enjoyable reading.
It sounds like you did great this year in spite of the bear.
I can’t believe all the variations on moisture quilts I have read in the past month. This one is also clever. I imagine you could change the pine shavings, wash the pillow case, and go for another year. I’m planning on putting together a list of all these interesting variations, and I will be sure to include yours. Thanks for writing.
Thanks for the moisture quilt plans. Here’s my modified form: (http://strathconabeekeepers.blogspot.com/2011/10/moisture-quilt-insulated-hive-cover.html). Is there really a need for the inner cover if you have the moisture quilt? Great site! Thanks.
Bruce,
There’s no need for an inner cover with a moisture quilt. I don’t use one, but they do lift the telescoping cover higher–a consideration if your vent holes are being covered by the telescoping cover. Your invention is totally different, though, so it wouldn’t need one.
I have 2 comments. Last year a Polish gentleman overwintered 75 10-frame Langstroth hives in the orchard behind my house in east-central Missouri. He had quilts on all of the hives similar to yours. They also had upper entrance holes on all of the boxes. My wife and I have had a few Langstroth hives for a few years. I built two Warre hives this spring as a trial. I made a mistake by not placing a wire screen under the fabric quilt and both hives ate through the fabric in 3 days and dumped the chips into each hive. The wire screen helps hold the quilt above the top bars and keeps the bees down. A Warre is only about 12″ x 12″ inside, so a quilt for a Langstroth will be much harder to support with the extra area and wood chip volume. It definitely keeps the moisture level down when damp and acts as an attic insulation to keep cool in the hot summer.
Hi Jon,
I’ve had so many people write about supporting the quilt from underneath that I will have to re-write my how-to post. As I’ve said earlier, I think the feeder rims that I keep between the top brood box and the quilt kept the bees from eating through the quilt. But for people who don’t use a feeder rim, something is definitely needed to support the fabric. And as you point out, the Langstroth arrangement requires a longer span and, therefore, better support.
Thanks for writing. I’m surprised quilts aren’t more popular. Those who use them seem to overwinter their bees really well, just like your neighbor. I haven’t heard about them being used in summer before–definitely something I need to try.
Hi! I’ve been thinking about doing this for my hives – I am in zone 7.
I thought I could just use my regular screened inner cover and pile a layer of shavings on it, then a shim with ventilation holes above it, then the telescoping cover.
Thinking through my problems:
Seems like you think the metal may make the moisture condense there before it reaches the shavings?
Maybe this will be a mess? Would the bees start messing with the shavings for some reason? In that case, I could put cloth in between the metal screen and the shavings.
I’m worried the shavings will just harbor lots of bugs – I have roaches, spiders, weird beetles – all sorts of things coming out of the woods that my hives are located next to!
Can’t wait to try this, because I think the moisture is my whole problem in winter, I’ve had bees freeze to death, right next to a full super of honey.
Hi Mark,
I like the idea of using the screened inner covers because it gives you a multiple use for that piece of equipment. I haven’t actually tried using hardware cloth to retain the shavings because I thought moisture might condense there and drop down on the bees. But maybe the wood chips would absorb it. I just don’t know. But if you try it, please let me know how it works.
I haven’t had a problem with bugs, although I do use cedar shavings and many bugs don’t like cedar. It didn’t seem to affect the bees; in fact my bees have done exceptionally well since I started using the quilts. Like yours, my hives are at the edge of the woods and there are plenty of bugs around, but so far they haven’t moved in. The worst problem I have is black spiders that like to live just under the inner cover, but not in the shavings.
If you haven’t read the post Honey bee quilt show, it contains a lot of alternative ideas for the moisture quilt. One of the readers confines the shavings in a pillow case, an idea that both corrals the shavings and keeps out many of the insects.
The bees themselves don’t seem to mess with the shavings. In the spring they cart out the few that fall down into the hive, and I sometimes see them wrestling with a piece on the landing board.
Just found the site and am enjoying it.
I am in central WA (Ellensburg) so east of the Cascades with cold winters. Last year was my first with two Langs, one package and one captured swarm. Both successful but honey harvest only on the package.
I now have built two Warres and am wondering if any of you folks can give me some suggestions of how to transfer my colonies from the Langs to the Warres.
I plan to use the Langs to hopefully entice wild swarms but would like to go entirely to Warres.
Thanks for any comments.
Does anyone have an ideas on this? Phillip? Personally, I would shake the bees into the Warres and then cut any brood comb from the Lang frames and tie them onto the Warre top bars. I would sequester the queen during the transition (put her in a cage) so she doesn’t fly off during the confusion or get injured. I might leave her caged for a couple days until things settle down.
Thanks Rusty. I am hoping someone has a simpler way to do it.
There was concern on this blog about wire mesh under the quilt to keep the fabric from sagging because water might condense on it. I doubt that is a worry because the sawdust or whatever above the fabric will insulate the wire. It should be the same temperature as the hive so condensation should not occur.
Tom
Tom,
You are right about the wire hardware cloth . . . thanks for that.
[...] Rusty’s full article is located at:- http://www.honeybeesuite.com/how-to-make-a-moisture-quilt-for-a-langstroth-hive/ [...]
Hmm. Tried putting a lang on top of the warre with a gasket to match the openings. No, the girls would not go down to the Warre.Then stacked several warre hive boxes and put the lang frames loaded with bees on end into the warre with the box with the bars on top.
The girls loved it but would not go up to make comb on the bars.
So, took the frames out and shook the ladies into the warre. So they were all in the warre with the top bars on top….
They all came out of the opening and spent a chilling night outside in a clump. Next day, they are still outside and don’t even want to escape to the former home lang next door.
These girls have an attitude!
I fear that I will lose this colony. What to do?
Tom,
You don’t mention the queen. Take the queen, put her in a queen cage, and put the queen cage where you want the bees to be. They will go where she is. So if you put her in the Warre and then shake the bees into the Warre, they will stay there and build their home. Let her loose in a few days when things calm down and the workers are building comb.
Thanks Rusty
I went out this AM to do as you suggest but with doubts that I would be able find the queen as last night the bees were in a larg ball on the exterior of the warre.
So, after getting prepared with tools, smoke, sugar h2o sprayer, etc, I went to the hive.
Voila! The bees had gone in on their own!!! I presume the queen must be in there. Peeking in the window on the side of the hive one can see that they are busy building comb!
Tom
That’s great! I’m glad it worked out okay.