This is a place for questions and answers about long hives, specifically the Valkyrie long hive. Also, if you have photos of your hives, I can post there here as well.
The Boardman feeder sitting where frames 18-22 should be and frames 23-24 in place to hold up the canvas/wool blankets.
The frames after lifting the canvas cover.
Frame #2 where the ladies are recently building drone comb.
Frame #1 (at the farthest left) which, after about 21 days is still fairly empty.
Frames 1-17 moving L-R, (the numbers are mis-marked, ignore them). I placed 2 empty frames on the far left on Naomi’s advice when we switched the colony out of the temporary Langstroth.
135 Comments
I just acquired a Valkyrie long hive. I am painting it today.
This is my 2nd year as a beek, still very new…but did manage to overwinter both my hives (whew).
I am 60, and the boxes are too heavy. Hence the long hive.
Vivien had lots of information. She was great. Really great.
I do need to know…since I am so new…I’ve been running with plastic foundation. I’m not really ready to go foundation-less….I am hoping to split one of my very strong hives into the long hive.
So how do I set up the long hive?…..black plastic in the brood box area ie 1 thru 17ish…….. including on the right a couple frames of black foundation with honey/pollen/nectar…..
Then for the honey… do I put in deep frames with white plastic? as used in the medium supers for honey….? so I can be sure not to harvest/reuse brood stuff? I am very confused about this.
I set up my two Valkyrie hives with a split from my over wintered surviving hive.
I love these hives. I don’t need any help lifting anything, it’s amazing. The inner canvas cover keeps them calm during inspections, they are already over to slot 18 full of honey. I keep putting new frames in front of #3 and #9 frame. I had two observation windows installed. It is amazing to be able watch our precious girls hard at work.
I hope we get more posts about these hives. I’d like to connect with other Valkyrie users. Linda Grinde
Black plastic foundation on deep frames can be used in the brood area. The white foundation on deep frames can be used in the honey surplus section. The brood area usually consumes frames 1 through 12 and up to 18, depending on the race of honey bee.
My selected option is foundationless frames. I figured out that wedge-top Langstroth frames have a built-in starter strip. Pop off the wedge strip and glue it back onto its top bar, rather than nailing it to hold prepared foundation. For me, foundationless frames work without the cross combing, provided the top bar is aligned magnetic north and south. No division/follower board is necessary. Fill the long hive completely with frames (empty, w/foundation or drawn) from the get go.
I use a feeder, (but not for much longer), cause my colony was stressed and very active when it came to me. It’s a regular boardman feeder, placed inside the Valkyrie in the space where frame #’s 18-22 would be. I keep frames #23 and #24 on the far right just to hold up my canvas and the Triple-Layer Wool blanket that I use. I’m not using a frame feeder nor am I putting any feeding stuff near the bee entrance so that I don’t attract robbers (thank you, Naomi!).
I’ll be removing the feeder in the future but not sure exactly when– I’ll ask Naomi!
I’m only writing a comment so I can subscribe to the comment thread.
My long hives are Langstroth 20-frame double-wides, not Valkyries. I could try to send pictures, but my camera is a tablet, not even a phone, and my photography skills are just barely good enough for friends and family.
I just made my first split ever…I did about 50/50 from my very full overwintered Langstroth hive into my new Valkyrie.
Despite a lot of looking I could not find the queen…there were SO many bees in there…but there were multiple frames of capped/uncapped and eggs and very young larvae available to choose from. There were no swarm cells yet, but multiple cups on the bottom of the frames. I shook a LOT of nurse bees to the long hive too.
I’ll go back in to look for eggs and/or queen cells in a few days.
I’ve been very anxious about doing a split…now I’ve got my fingers crossed the bees figure it out.
I had to have my neighbor and associate bee geek come over to help, as the honey supers are so heavy and just thinking of having to manipulate all the boxes is enough to make me put off going into the hives. I can tell already the long hive is going to be much easier to deal with.
Here are my hives, the long hive having just been leveled and set in place (hence the tractor).
I needed to do a split, so I didn’t get to take the time to paint it up like I wanted, but my 21 yr old daughter has suggested she cold do a mural, we will see (20 yr olds being who they are).
I did do my very first split today from my strongest hive. I could not find the queen but had lots of frames with eggs and young brood to choose from. No swarm cells, which I was expecting. I also found brood in the lowest honey super, a lot. That may be why I missed finding her!! I was expecting her in the brood boxes.
As advised by many people, I shook more nurse bees than I thought necessary. So the bees in the honey supers hanging out are they typically foragers? Or nurse bees?
After hefting around all those boxes today (we did my friends hives too) I am hoping the long hives perform. They certainly already seem easier.
Thanks for the photo. If you every get a bigger one, send that along was well.
As for bees in honey supers, they are workers but not foragers or nurses. Some folks call them “receivers” because they receive the nectar from the foragers and place it in the cells.
Apparently I failed at the comments subscription, so here I go again. Feel free to delete this comment, unless it might help others feel better about their technological screwups.
Hello again. I’m hoping for more responders to this thread…:)
Have the receivers in the supers flown and oriented? I shook a lot of super bees into my split (easy to get to)just wondering if they will fly-back as the foragers will.
And as winter is coming I’m assuming I lay sugar cakes and eventually pollen on top of the bars as usual and drape the canvas over top?
And then with my 4-day-old split into a new long hive, I couldn’t find the queen when the split was done. So I was in looking today. I found multiple (15+) emergency cells all charged with larvae (fast girls).
I dropped everything and ran to the local bee place and got a queen as I didn’t want to wait the three weeks for a new one (blackberries are coming). And I now know where the original queen is…not in the split!!
But rather than lifting off a few boxes, (look at frames) then lifting all those boxes back on. (Run to town) then lift them off again (install queen) then put them back ON again…(done).
I lifted a lid twice and rolled up a canvas, Ha! the smoker was even still going when I got back from town! I think I’m going to be a walking advertisement for Langstroth compatible long hives. Can I get paid
I still wasn’t getting the emails about new comments, but I finally noticed that I have been checking the “notify me of new posts” box. The “notify me of follow-up comments” option is completely missing. Is that just me?
I’m learning here, too. I set up this discussion as a page rather than a post. The reason being, I wanted to me able to put it on the drip-down menus. Turns out, pages don’t have the same notification options as posts. Who knew? So, I may change it to a post, but I’m not sure yet. Anyway, not your fault.
Oh thank goodness it’s not me. Also, here, have armsful of sympathy. Wouldn’t the internet be a wonderful thing if it would just do what we want instead of what it thinks we ought to want. You could then just take all your various mentions (and our various comments) of how the site isn’t doing what you/we want, and put them on their own post/page, instead of clogging up the bee stuff.
Hi. John here from New Zealand…In a hot summer flow at the moment. I have just made my own horizontal hive Lang. Where will the bees put their brood in these hives?
Somewhere between the entrance and the middle, I suspect.
I made 8 long hives, 3 of which I use, the other 5 were given to my daughter and a couple friends. In each case the brood are in frames 1-7. My hives hold up to 35 frames.
So, so happy to find this thread, and I’ve bookmarked it. I’m a brand new beekeeper using a 31 frame long Lang. We installed a 5 frame nuc on May 2, so am in a steeeeeep learning curve at the moment, but all appears well at this point. Fortunately, my husband and I joined our local club. Most members use traditional Langs, there are a few top bar keepers, and I think we are the only ones with a long hive. Will be checking in here frequently. : )
My long hive was being robbed. I have sent Rusty pics of my 4 minute and 20 minute assembly time, home made robber screens I threw together….the 4 minute one worked about that long… (well…an afternoon actually). The 20 min one seems to be working.
I thought my hive was being robbed also!! So Scary!
Naomi, Larry and I split my first hive the day after I delivered Carol’s Valkyrie to her. Left the girls alone (not that I knew how to do otherwise,) to let the new queen do her thing. About 8 days later I described to Naomi what we both felt was certainly robbing activity, so I took away the feeders from both the Valkyries and covered them with wet sheets during the day to confuse the robbers.
On Naomi’s advice, I screwed up my courage to do a double inspection, looking carefully for ragged, torn cells on the frames which Naomi assured me couldn’t be mistaken. Here’s the mystery: NO DAMAGE at all in either Valkyrie, AND, in the new colony– voila! a new queen happily going about her business. Sooo…. I’ll look in on both colonies on Saturday. It seems that what I mistook in my neophyte-ness was a “feeding frenzy”?? Another beekeeper just a mile from me was going through the same thing: bees flying like fighter-pilots in large numbers due to an overwhelming nectar flow… like I knew that. :’)
When I pulled the bottom board a few days ago there was torn ragged comb pieces all over the place and the frames of nectar/pollen I had added with the split were empty and ragged.
I did the split on 5/21, found emergency queen cells on 5/24 and introduced a mated marked queen on 5/24 too, after destroying all the emergency cells. The queen cage was empty and I removed it on 5/27. Then the robbing began. I do have syrup in there.
I looked for eggs or the queen after seeing all the damage on 5/29…..couldn’t find her or eggs. I’m debating going back in to look for her again today. I hate I’ve been in there so much, but if she isn’t laying after 8 days, is she likely dead and gone?
There are still nurse bees and some capped brood, debating getting a frame more of capped brood from another hive to add. I’m thinking I should have just let them raise a queen. I’m not saving much time or money doing it this way!!!
Good news, the robber screen seems to be working well.
I got into the long hive and found eggs….yay! The queen survived.
So I got into one of the other hives and got a frame with both sides solid with capped brood and added it to the long hive, which still has a lot of nurse bees to cover it. Added a piece of pollen patty too.
I don’t know why she took so long to lay, although a newly-mated queen sometimes gets off to a slow start—maybe just a few eggs the first day, and then a few more. It sounds like you’ve got the problem cleared up.
My new queen got off to a very slow start also, so Carol, I can relate: I was so hesitant to look inside again. The older queen (inside the “Endurance” Valkyrie) is faring quite well, but, the new queen (in “Hope” Valkyrie), did indeed take a bit longer to get it together even though I’ve spied her more than once trucking around happily with her red dot.
The weather here has been so darned un-seasonally cold and VERY windy so I’ve put back in the feeder to help the new queen along. I’ll check her tomorrow for capped brood, etc. I’ve been doing whole-colony powdered sugar dustings on each colony and have a mite count down to 1-3, that’s another thing I’ll be doing tomorrow as well. The dusting (and even the rolling) sugar process is SO EASY with only the lid to lift and blankets to roll out of the way, too cool.
So sorry, Carol, to hear of the robbers: dirty rats! Hope all goes better!
Sincerely, V
Oh boy, now what do we new beeks do? We installed a 5 frame nuc into our new horizontal lang on May 2. The bees were very reluctant to build on new foundation, but the queen kept laying, and although spotty pattern, the population built up. Late last week, just as the Himalayan blackberries started blooming, activity out front picked up dramatically. We went in and did a complete inspection yesterday. Found the queen. Again noted no new brood frames, frames absolutely packed with bees, swarm cells on bottom of three frames, one frame being drawn for honey and partially full. I said I was concerned that with no expansion of the brood area, and the high population, the girls were going to swarm. Sometime today they did just that.
Went back in to quickly check. Population dropped by at least 1/3. No queen found. Larvae in at least two of those swarm cells. Still some eggs, larvae, and plenty of capped brood. Now into our main honey flow, do I order and overnight a queen, or let them requeen?
That’s a judgement call. If it were me, I’d let them requeen themselves because I prefer locally adapted queens. The workers will keep bringing in nectar during the time the queen is maturing and mating. Everything you describe sounds normal, so I wouldn’t worry.
Thanks so much, Rusty. That’s what we’ll do. When I walked by this morning, the activity at the hive was so much calmer and pleasant. A nice steady hummmming, instead of the near roar we heard for a few days. Learning curve is fun, but steep! 🙂
My Valkyrie has a new split of about a month or so. There are lots of eggs and open brood, some capped brood and some new white drawn comb, so the split is beginning to come along. I put in about 5 frames of drawn comb and bees when I did the split. I am still feeding 1:1 syrup which they are still going through fairly quickly.
My question… yesterday I peeked in the observation window on the right to check the syrup level, and the window was covered with condensation. (The syrup was empty.)
I opened the left window and it was dry.
Seems to be a ventilation issue going on?
Rusty in your picture of your purple hive I see you added a screened hole near the peak of the lid….Have you seen moisture accumulation? I think if its a problem now its gong to be very wet in the winter!!
I opened the bottom board halfway on that side to help dry it out, but was a bit concerned about drawing robbers to the scent of the syrup so close to the bottom screen.
I was advised to leave the wool over the canvas all the time for insulation against heat as well as cold, but now I’m wondering if this is not good.
Good question. Because I firmly believe all beekeeping is local, I took the radical step of putting attic ventilation in my Valkyrie. The way I see it, the hive was designed for the desert, but I live at the edge of a rain forest. I didn’t add the holes right away, but two weeks after installing a split, the canvas cover was drenched in condensation. And you are correct, the window was fogging as well.
I never fed my split, figuring there was plenty of forage out there, so I know the condensation was not from a feeder. The colony, though, exploded in size after I installed them. They obviously feel at home in the Valkyrie, but I couldn’t leave them with a dripping canvas. Within a day of drilling the holes, the canvas cover dried completely. Problem solved. The holes were cut with a hole saw and covered on the inside with 1/8-inch wire mesh. I have plugs, too, color-coordinated in purple. It takes less than a minute to close the vents, if that’s what I want. My hive is mostly in shade, so it dries out less quickly than one in the sun, so that will make a difference, too.
I can tell you the split I put in there has filled the hive end-to-end. The bees certainly seem happy in it.
Also, I don’t have a wool blanket. I will get one before winter, but for now I’m going without, so I can’t give you any feedback on that.
So you drilled with the bees in there? I was wondering if I could get away with that!
I was trying to figure out if the feeder was the source of the moisture, the fact that the other window was dry, at the other end of the hive… makes me think the feeder might be part of the problem….my canvas has not been wet at all. My spilt got slowed by robbers but seems to have recovered.
Hmm…drill …..and staple gun go into the next equipment cart I guess…definitely will veil up for that!!
A Valkyrie owner on the east coast ran into moisture problems caused by two feeders in one Valkyrie. Moisture dripping and condensation. The feeders were removed, we replaced her canvas cover (which had mildew) and also sent the 3-layer blanket as well. So far, problem solved. The hive is in an orchard with lots of sprinklers, but since her exterior finish was shedding the water just fine, it wasn’t the sprinklers.
Carol, I don’t recommend removing the lid at all mainly because it could really increase the chances of robbing from your hive (wouldn’t you think so as well, Rusty?). You run the risk of losing a lot of heat from the girls in comprising the intended function of the Valkyrie lid, and your brood may get too cold even with both the canvas and the 3 layer blanket. Remember, we warranty the lid (if it remains unaltered) for two full years.
Both colonies (mine) are doing great and we’ve had one of the coldest and wettest June’s I’ve seen in about 5 years— too much rain for my taste, but still, no problems with condensation.
Yes, I believe that removing the roof could lead to robbing, rain entry, and early-morning dew problems, even with the canvas and blankets in place. Also predators such as wasps, mice, raccoons, and opossums could easily enter the hive.
I took the lid off to drill it….then replaced it. It was off for all of 15 minutes and then screwed back on. I just didn’t want to drill with it on the hive and totally piss off the bees. Which Im glad I did as the bit was more dull thanI expected and the wood more hard..
I apologize that came across so differently.
I did NOT just take off the top!!
C
What size drill hole did you make and what do the vent plugs look like? I live in middle Tennessee and my hive is new (this season) and I have mold growing on the wet blanket… please help! I’ll get it done tomorrow. Also how many vents do you put in the attic?
Bee stewards have a plethora of options to manage a honey bee colony. Many options in our tool kit may not be in the best interest of the colony, e.g., anthropomorphism. The Valhalla long hive, now the Valkyrie, was designed with the needs of a colony and not for any particular climate. I could not offer an engineer’s explanation for how this long hive functioned, just that the colony responded favorably through the seasons and over years.
In part, an engineer has weighed in on the discussion of humidity and condensation within a bee hive, albeit for wintering, it has shown me to be applicable year round. Please refer to Derek Mitchell’s article in the August 2017 American Bee Journal, “Honey Bee Engineering: Top Ventilation and Top Entrances.” Mitchell included excellent visuals to explain his findings. I will paraphrase from his article.
Research that started in 2011 was finally published settling the 100 year debate about hive ventilation. Derek Mitchell has a masters in engineering with a physics background. He repeated a long standing experiment from 1943. Mitchell took 2.3 million temperature measurements from 12 hives representative of 8 different styles. Conclusion: Colonies benefit from top insulation with only a bottom entrance. If you don’t insulate a hive, then it doesn’t matter how many vent holes, because the inside temperature will always be on the cool side: cool pool will be deeper and warm pool will be shallow.
Mitchell was asked by the ABJ editor about concern with not allowing warm, moist air to escape through a top vent hole, he answered: “This is all gone through in detail in my research article (1). The condition of cold condensation raining down on the bees only occurs in hives with high heat loss. Moist air is possible without condensation if the hive is insulated so that the surfaces above the bees are above the dew point. Numerous researchers show that the honey bees do best in a relative humidity of 75% plus at temperatures above 26C (2) including your frequent contributor Jamie Ellis.”
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The Valkyrie long hive considered that brood food is 70% water. Why would a colony not utilize the collection of moisture from their hive’s interior? A fogging viewing window is probably a result of 75% RH, the colony’s preference. Many of our skewed decisions about the hive’s interior would be dissolved by studying tree hives; I know it opened my eyes for the betterment of my managed colonies.
Well, I was all ready to be greatly insulted until I reread my post…..there WAS a bit of a leap there…
Stream of consciousness writing….I do it all the time and just assume people will get it.
C
I am not an eloquent writer, nor—by choice—tech savy. My comments just happened to land at the bottom of all conversations without malicious intent to offend. Seldom do I write about the many lessons I have learned managing my apiaries and visiting numerous others. My apologies to all.
No offense taken by me, but I see anthropomorphism as a tool for both teaching and learning. I use it frequently as I did last week when I wrote, “I hate to anthropomorphize but….” Aesop was famous for using anthropomorphism as a literary device, as was Homer, Kipling, EB White, JK Rowling, and George Orwell.
A literature professor once explained to me that anthropomorphic statements are so clearly fiction that they have the power to expose greater truth. Since we allow our fictional minds greater freedom than our analytical minds, anthropomorphism allows us to make connections we might not otherwise make. The fiction allows us to overcome prejudices and preconceived ideas.
I can understand why someone might not like anthropomorphism, but for me it is an essential part of writing. And if my fictional wanderings bring an iota of understanding to someone, or if they bring a smile to an unknown reader, then I have met my goal.
Hey well.
I am a second year bee keeper, don’t know much. I am very pleased that Naomi has such a wide path of knowledge to share. I don’t think she writes badly at all. As opposed to my wandering consiousness. I want to see more of her thoughts here.
BUT IDK…Im seeing different things.
I must comment that since drilling the holes…and removing the wool….the bees have been more vigorous?
I did have a wet canvas…dripping!.. before I drilled ventilation, I removed the feeder also…
This was a split..so the timing may just be that drilling etc coincided with the hive starting to have workers start emerging en mass.
I believe Rusty mentioned that her hive took off after the vent holes were placed….?
I intend to replace the wool as winter approaches and hope it will function much like a moisture quilt.
I love this hive…so easy….Im trying to figure out how to convert the other hives to long ones…$$$$
Can anyone tell me if they have used OA on this Valkyrie or any other long hive..
Has it been effective…since the vapor needs to travel laterally..instead of straight up…..Should I vap both sides?
August is amazingly fast approaching and I will need to treat.
C
I am ready to treat my ‘new this spring from a split’ long hive with OA vap. I’m going to drop the canvas down alongside the last active frame…they have about 8 frames full and the rest are empty. I am going to treat as for a one deep brood Langstroth.
I am just semi-educated guessing on this…can anyone with long hives comment on how they have done it? I’m expecting 3-4 treatments at 4-5 day intervals. Following up with an alcohol wash and also counting mite board drops since I have the time and its fun and educational to watch.
I’m in contact with other Valkyrie owners in New York State and Georgia. In addition to myself and my two Valkyries, we’re all seeing mite counts of less than five using a total colony powdered sugar method. I clean the left bottom board completely, dust the entire colony with powdered sugar, (I use the hive brush to “wipe” the sugar from the top bars down into the spaces between the frames,) and then wait 10-15 min to collect all of the stuff that falls to the bottom board. I’ll use a plastic container to get all of the sugar, add some water to dissolve it, then pour it through a coffee filter. When it’s drained, I count the little devils. So far, less than three is the count since May. NY and GA both concur with similar reports.
Naomi had educated me (again, forever…) that in humidity levels above 80% the Varroa devils have a harder time reproducing, It was humidity, right Naomi? Since NY, GA and I are each using the 3-layer wool blanket, I’m hoping that’s the reason? Let me qualify that: I don’t have any scientific study to back that up, but, I like the way it sounds…
I need to follow up with a rolling sugar test: half-cup of bees in two processes, timed, and then I can compare the two mite counts.
I’ll be back as soon as I can with really high heat temps and the bearding behavior of my colonies here in Central Oregon—very strange and wonderful.
A Valkyrie owner says he really appreciates the bottom drawer underneath the screen drawer in the Valkyrie because he says that the vapor still travels throughout the hive, but, the bees can’t get near or touch the acid strips themselves? He places the stuff directly on the bottom drawer, I would assume on the left side… I’ll have to ask him.
Not having used OA, I have no reference point, but Mark seems really pleased! V
Hi Valkyrie owners! Here’s my latest…
Let’s talk plastic foundation: I never knew that the foundation sold has a triangle “punch-out” on the lower corner. Never knew that the beekeeper is supposed to remove it so that the ladies have a “hiking path” to travel within the frames during the Winter/Spring to access food stores (either their own, or those provided by the beekeeper). I’m sending a picture sent to me by Valkyrie owner Ms. Vorbach of New York State. Never knew that the cold-weather cluster could expand or contract as needed from softball to football size. Thank you, Naomi for the education– as usual!
Paraphrasing from Naomi: “Clustering is a difficult concept for us to understand when we don’t usually get to see it on the frames. A swarm cluster is what we usually picture in our minds, in contrast with a housed colony clustering on frames. I hope the thermal images help with the visualization. The colony does cluster in a long hive, it just can be more horizontal than vertical as in a vertical hive, e.g. Warré or Langstroth.
The cluster travels from frame to frame (if necessary) around the sides of frames (there is bee space, check it out), travel ports (they make their own on foundationless or popped corners in foundation), and via burr comb between frames in vertical boxes.
Bee space of 3/8” allows the girls to travel 2 at a time…as a group.”
I’m going to do this myself for each of my Valkyrie Long Hives: I’ll be testing each frame for plastic foundation. One way to tell is that the foundation will predominantly be worker-sized cells. You can purchase foundation made up of drone-sized cells, of course, but those are green (as opposed to yellow?). I’ll use a screw-driver to gently push on the upper corner of the frame and if I can push it through; if it gives, then it’s truly bee-created wax, which they can easily create their own “hiking path” upon. When I find a frame with plastic foundation, I’ll move it into position #2 or #3, closest to the entrance. Naomi said that the cluster is more often moving to the right looking for more food during the cold weather “shut down” rather than towards the entrance, if I’ve remembered it correctly. Now, my colonies each have maybe one frame of plastic foundation that I can easily see, but, if I had more than one, how I should create a “pathway” for the girls along the upper corner (either right or left,) or along the top bar– I don’t know. I’ll get back to you on that one.
The mysterious (and hitherto almost unknown) plastic triangle is most often located on a bottom corner of the frame. This isn’t very nice to the bees in that it forces them to move downward where all of the colder air is hovering, as they search of food. The answer (in a NEW AND UNUSED frame with foundation) is to remove the triangle, slide the foundation out of the frame and flip it so that the empty space is at the TOP bar rather than the bottom, slide it back into place and reconnect the top bar. Voila! ready to go. In my colonies, I need to point out, I won’t be using any foundation at all: that’s my preference. As soon as I can remove the foundation-ed frames, I will.
Here’s the scary part: can you just imagine HOW MANY BEEKEEPERS LOST AN ENTIRE COLONY over the winter and never knew that maybe it was because the cluster had no “pathway” through which to gain access to the food??? How many beekeepers, not knowing about the plastic triangle, lovingly placed more than enough food to keep the ladies happy through the Winter and Spring and yet, the bees never actually ate it? Sad.
On an aside: in the Valkyrie, the cold air is sumped downward into the extra space below the bottom bar and above the slatted area, which makes it much easier for the girls to avoid the cold. Could the ladies walk down the frame and across the bottom bar then back up to where the food is? Yes, but, why would they? It’s too cold. They’ll want to stay up where the warmest air is, right?
Rusty, if you’ve any suggestions for creating a pathway in an already occupied frame that can’t be moved to the #2 or #3 position, please let me know!
On my smaller colony, “Elpis” (Hope), I’ve started supplementing with sugar syrup 1:1. I’ve colored it blue/green so I can easily see the difference on the frames between what the ladies gathered and what I’ve provided. Because this colony is so small, I’ll be removing frame #’s 11-24 and putting inside a blocker board (frame #10 as it were,) and a stack of blankets in the empty space to the right. I’ve been wanting to see an “upside-down horseshoe” of stored honey on at least 5 frames, and the girls are really trying, but the stores aren’t there yet and we’re on a fast clip to September 1st. I’ll leave any honey present for her to use during Winter/Spring.
(Rusty, I’ve sent you some heat-sensor photos– FLIR camera– from Naomi that show a horizontal layout of the Winter cluster within two different Valkyries that she owns. Very interesting!)
Because I’ll have the inner canvas cover as well as the Triple-Layer Blanket, I believe that Hope will stay warmer and use less energy keeping themselves warm and may not need tremendous amounts of food. I’ll be putting food on top of the top bars in cake/slab form (again, because she’s so small)– pictures to follow soon. Because the colder air will be sinking way down to the slatted/drawer “sump” area, further away from the cluster, it seems that this will be another benefit which eases the workload on the ladies. Cold air trying to enter the Valkyrie from snow underneath the hive will be abated by the insulation slab, and the awning above the entrance will help keep snow/ice/rain from entering the hive. I’ll snug down the entrance slide to 1 bee width.
“Hypomone” (Endurance) is another matter. She’s fat. And big. And has the “honey horseshoe”(sometimes 2-3 inches thickness,) on frame #s 7-12 and on #3 and 4. And she’s fat. Quite pleased with herself, in fact. Her, I’ll leave alone: not gonna touch any of the honey, she gets it all. I won’t be putting any food on the top bars– leap of faith, right? After making sure that any plastic foundation has a “pathway” I’ll leave the canvas and Triple Layer just where they are. I’ll snug down the entrance door slide to 1 bee-width, and there you have it. May the fat lady sing all through the Winter and Spring!
Glad for any feedback you may have, fondly, Vivien
My long hive has stored no honey. It was a hefty split this spring, bolstered with extra brood early on. I built a robber screen for the hive in late June and it has been in place all summer. They increased frames over the summer.
There are now perhaps 7 frames full of bees, but in August they had no honey, and only a small amount of nectar. Queen and brood were present.
My two other traditional hives gave me 13 gallons in honey supers, plus filled their brood boxes.
I treated for varroa in mid August. I began 2:1 syrup in early September. October 5th I inspected and now they have a ton of nectar….on every frame, no capped honey.
Is this nectar too late? Can they get it converted it to capped honey this late in the year? Or alternately, can they use nectar for food in the winter?
It sounds like they stored all that syrup, so most likely it’s just syrup and not nectar that you are seeing. They may cap some of it before winter, or not. But it doesn’t really matter. They can eat it just the same.
Here’s an update: I chose not to put any food at all on the top bars of the frames in my Valkyries. Instead I’ve put two SockerMats in each colony: one near the entrance to the left of the brood area, and one to the right of their honey stores; the reasoning being that I’d like the girls to eat their own honey before they access the SockerMat.
My colonies, being the “guinea pigs” have SockerMats that vary in composition: one frame each of 100% granulated sugar, 50-50% granulated:superfine sugar, 100% superfine sugar, and 30% superfine:70% granulated. Since each Valkyrie got only two SockerMats, it’ll be interesting to see if the bees had a preference of one recipe over the other. I used the 1/8″ wire mesh for each frame, not plastic foundation, and each SockerMat weighs about 6 lbs. This equals about 12 lbs food plus the honey and nectar/syrup that the bees had stored-up themselves.
I’m not wrapping the exterior of the Valkyries in anything; simply putting straw bales near the NW corners to block the worst of the harsh winds and snow that come galloping across the acreage. The Inner canvas has been thickly propolized to seal in heat, and the Triple-Layer Wool Blankets that lie on the canvas are tucked into place.
Spring should be interesting for us, and I’ll keep you posted.
The Endurance colony was in far too much shade (quel horreur!); night-time temps were in the low 20’s, so I had to do an emergency move. In the Spring, when I had placed the hive, there was plenty of sun all day… didn’t factor in the earth movement—duh.
So Bruce and I lifted the hive and walked it two acres away to it’s new location. We first located, leveled and positioned the hive stand at magnetic north/south so when we gently lowered the Valkyrie into place, all was in readiness.
Then a few bees slowly made their way out of the hive and flew in small figure-eights near the entrance. In the past few days, I’ve seen more than 10-15 at the entrance, coming and going, while about 5 bees flying around at the previous location looking confused, or was that peeved?
This colony is aptly named: “Hypomone”—Endurance. Yep, she needs that, alright!
Hello, I have been interested in beekeeping for years, but have never taken the leap to try on my own. One thing that has kept me from starting this is it seems beekeepers, even backyard hobbyist, never seem to have just one hive. I understand there are advantages to having 2. But it seems 2 often becomes 4, then more and move…. I really don’t want to fill my yard with hives. Is it realistic to enjoy all aspects of this hobby with only 1 or 2 healthy hives? After tons of reading and classes, I keep coming back to the horizontal hive. I live in the Seattle area and would love to connect with others using the horizontal hive.
There is no reason in the world that you need to have more than one or two hives. Two is the logical choice because, if you lose a queen, you can usually raise another from eggs.
I am strongly considering getting a horizontal hive. I currently have an 8 frame Langstroth hive and it is my second year as a beekeeper. The horizontal hives look like they would be so much easier to work and less disruptive to the bees. Are there any books that explain in detail how to set up and work a horizontal hive. Is there a difference between a horizontal hive and a Valkyrie hive or are they just different name for the same thing?
I am in my third year of beekeeping and have mostly Langstroth hives but I do have one long Lang using deep frames. It is great lifting a lid rather than multiple boxes but the colony in my long Lang seems to struggle and is by far my weakest hive. I look forward to learning more about this style of beekeeping. Where can I find plans for the Valkyrie hive?
I have 2 new long hives ready for spring. They can hold 29 frames, have 3 entrances on the side. I am trying to switch from the Langstroth hives as my back can’t handle the lifting. (Heading for 65th bd.) Right now I have 2 hives and a nuc. I see everyone is making splits. Would I be better off putting in the nuc and just making splits off of the other hives as a backup? Am very nervous about this as no one has long hives in our bee clubs. Appreciate any advice on this.
Bees behave basically the same, no matter the shape of their home, so don’t be nervous. You can do it either way. I just took the ten frames from a Langstroth and set them in a long hive. Later, you can make splits (or not) from your long hive.
I am moving to a Valkyrie hive this year because Langstroths are too heavy for me, they always were, now it’s worse. I was finding it difficult to manage what I could not physically manage so hopefully this is going to be better. I have never tried this kind of a hive before so I am going to be on a steep learning curve. Here is my question: I am reading about placement in alignment with north/south magnetic poles. This is new to me, what’s the reasoning? BTW: this series of discussions has been really helpful. sk
I’ve been reading through all the posts here and enjoying all the information.
In one of the posts, a “Sockermat” was mentioned. I tried to search that term to understand what it is and how it’s made. I was not able to find much. Can someone give an explanation of what it is and how to make one?
Also, in the posts there are photos mentioned. Where can those photos be seen?
I love your website Rusty, thank you. I am installing a new package of Carniolan bees in a long hive that my husband and I built this winter. I am starting my second year as a beekeeper and am looking forward to trying horizontal vs. vertical hives. It’s a bit frustrating how little information there is on the web about managing a horizontal hive. Fingers crossed all goes well today.
Last summer I split Carnies into a Valkarie. The hive struggled with robbing but eventually grew. It wintered over and is strong now, 12 frames + of bees, all stages of young, I see the queen.
It does not seem to move laterally to make honey or store nectar. Last summer it could have easily, but it stored almost no honey, I fed it. This spring is the same.
Is there some method I’m missing to get them to move sideways? They drew comb this spring to bridge the frames to the slatted rack. I just removed all that this week. Lots of eggs and drones.
My langs have an almost full super right now. I added another, and this Valkarie has nothing…a few arches of nectar is all. I’m not sure why.
If and when they DO start making honey, how do you differentiate the frames that have have been treated with miticide? Seeing that there is no clear boundary like in adding a super to a Lang.
I think it’s the individual colony, rather than the hive shape, that is causing the lack of honey. Not all colonies will produce at the same rate. I have no honey in any of my supers right now, but my bees are raising lots of brood which requires lots of resources. Many bees that normally collect nectar are probably out collecting pollen instead.
You can force bees to do something they don’t want to do. It’s best to relax because coaxing will wear on you, not them.
As for the treatment question, it depends on the product. If the product says not to use with honey supers in place, you need to take them off completely because the bees will move the product everywhere, even into the supers. A simple boundary won’t work. If it says you can leave supers on, then you don’t need a boundary between supers and brood boxes because it doesn’t matter.
I’m into my third year with a 30-frame long Langstrogh horizontal hive. Zone 7b. I really like the horizontal hive (I also have 10- and 8-frame traditional Langs) and am building another at this time. I am going to rig a queen excluder (follower-board style) because my queen will lay almost end to end, I think because there is no honey cap. Another issue is during the winter when my colony is at 14 to 16 frames, the empty space beyond the follower board gets mildew even though I have vent holes. This hive has been outstanding in production, and is so easy to work due to the fact that you can add or take away any number of frames in any position in the hive. Any advice on the mildew problem will be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi all,
This year’s colony of package Italians is doing great. In my 30 frame horizontal we have near 20 built out and crowded frames, plus 5 more being used for hanging out. I plan to use an oxalic acid dribble in late fall, but I need to treat for varroa now. What would you recommend? I’m leaning toward Formic Pro but am not sure how to use the product in the context of a long hive. Thank you!
I use the Formic Pro in my long hives. I try to place the two strips over the brood, but spread out a little wider from each other than they would be in a ten-frame.
FedEx just delivered my Formic Pro order and I was sitting here staring at the package, wondering…. Checked in here and found your message. What you do is what I had decided to do. Now I feel a little more confident. Thanks so much! J
(Just did a very quick check on the hive, the girls are sure kicking out the drones now! Fall is coming.)
Very successful 14 day treatment with the Formic Pro strips, placed as recommended by Roberta. Sticky trays show 1k+ mites, the 24 hr check prior to treatment was 55. Some drop in population, but not substantial. Mood of colony seems calmer than before treatment. We’ll be going in this coming weekend (weather permitting) to do a full inspection, look for queen, etc. Girls are busy on cosmos, dwarf oregano, thyme, mint, and autumn joy sedums which are just coming into bloom.
I will have two Kenyan-style top-bar hives but can adapt the sockermat to my hive. I assume the sugar is on the bee side and the mesh is on the away side of the bees? Also, would there be any reason I could not hang two sockermats back to back to provide an extra layer of insurance that they won’t run out of food? I assume the three tunnels would provide them with passageway to the second sockermat or I could always just use #4 hardware cloth as well.
You most certainly can back-to-back SockerMats within a colony. I doubled this insurance policy on some of my colonies for the winter. When a consistent nectar supply starts coming back to the colony, the bees will ignore the SockerMats; time to remove and place the sugar frames into storage.
I would only add that, when using a 1/4″ hardware cloth, the bees can eat from either side of the SockerMat, which makes placement less worrisome, and yes, the three holes at the top-bar will be fine for them to travel.
I have a question about horizontal hives. Are queen excluders used in horizontal beehives? I haven’t been able to find the answer to that question anywhere. Sorry. I am researching this because my daughter wants to get into beekeeping.
I read the post last year about Formic Pro. I have or had a very strong horizontal hive. New this year and filled 25 frames over the season. Midsummer I had a high mite count. I found what info I could about how to use Formic in the long hive and basically did as described. The wash I did a month later had a much higher count and I figured this wonderful colony was doomed. It was suggested to hit them hard with another round of Formic Pro. I did this, and a couple of weeks later did another mite count it is the same! The Formic is well within it’s expiration date. My queen is alive – whew. Now what – I’m at a loss. Oxalic acid vaporization maybe. The colony has a much lower population now but things are slowing down in Maine at this time of year, they have larvae and lots of honey stored. I did an alcohol wash two days ago with a half cup of bees and shook out 48 mites! Any suggestion is helpful at this point.
I would try a different treatment. It shouldn’t matter which one as long as it is not based on formic acid. You could use ApiLife var or Hopguard or oxalic acid, anything with a different mode of action.
First-year beekeeper. We caught a swarm in late June and built a long hive (~28 deep frames, horizontal) w/ 2 peek windows, bottom screen, and cookie sheets with oil. I am in LOVE with bees, have learned so much already, and am thankful for your site, Rusty.
Our bees “have action” on 12 frames, but only have honey +/or bees on 8.5 frames. are there too few to keep the hive warm enough? We had ~20 MAX capped brood Oct. 14 and saw the queen. There is honey/nectar… I don’t know if it is enough. I moved our follower board much closer to the bees, have fed some 2:1, and sewed wool pillows to lay on top of the inner cover. Will add some wood chips for moisture. Inner cover has three screened vent holes.
It sounds like the colony may be a bit light on honey, although a lot depends on the size of the colony and the harshness of the winter. Give them a frame of feed just to be on the safe side, and check them for stores now and then.
I have one Valkyre hive, they are doing great. I left most of the honey in the hive for a food supply. Struggling with mites, using a oxalic acid dribble, how often can I treat them?
What should I do when the blanket and canvas become wet? I would think I need to dry them out, but how? It’s chilly here and really windy I’m afraid to uncover the hive.
I am new to long hives but am enjoying the ease of them immensely! I am a new beek. Can anyone share a checklist for going into the winter? I have two Valkerie hives. How do you feed them in the winter? Are any resources available to read? I just want my two hives to make it thru the typically mild Georgia winter! Thanks in advance!
I finally splurged on a Valkyrie, getting it early for next spring because painting (or should I say “getting around to painting”) is likely to take months. I am wondering if I should paint the insulation piece that goes underneath. I asked this (weeks ago?) on the website where I ordered, but haven’t heard back.
I don’t know. Sunlight can breakdown that type of insulation I believe, so some people paint it. Mine doesn’t get much sun, so I didn’t paint it. It’s optional, I suspect.
I’m sorry about the website confusion! Our site shut down for about a week (hosting problems) but all emails should be forwarded directly to my “working” email: vivienhight@ymail.com. I’ll take a look in my spam folder (where it shouldn’t have landed) and see if I can find you.
The stand insulation is well protected by the hive body itself, so there’s no need to paint it. After some years it will “bleach out” but that won’t affect the performance. You could paint the stand with no problem. If you have laying hens who decide to peck the insulation brick to bits, we always have more to sell/ship to you. Ask me how I know they might do this. : ‘ )
Hi Janis! Glad you’re enjoying the Valkyries from Sandra:
Not being familiar with the Georgian climate, I would talk with Sandra as she was able to over-winter her Valkyrie colonies. With that being said, (and with a strong caveat: DO WHAT IS BEST IN YOUR JUDGEMENT FOR YOUR COLONY), what I did for mine was push the colony to the left, leaving frames 1 and 2 empty (without foundation), Frame #3 I wanted to be full of food and then, the main brood area. All the frames to the right of the main brood area I wanted to have plenty of hiking trails and lots of honey. I was looking for honey stores on the brood frames themselves to have capped honey along the top- and side-bars as well. With straw bales to block the worst of the icy winter winds, the girls should be alright. Even so, I’ll be checking during the warm streaks that we sometimes get over here to make sure that there’s plenty of food next to the brood area. I’ll use a SockerMat if there seems to be a need for it.
Keep the Inner Canvas tightly pressed edge-to-edge, corner-to-corner to seal in the heat, and the same goes for the Triple-layer Blanket. Hope that helps?
Hi Betty, I was just near your area a few weeks ago!
In truth, your blanket and canvas should not be wet.
Make sure that the canvas is tightly fitting to all the edges where the frames rest. There should be no gaps. It is probably too cold to do it now without some serious forethought (so that you can work quickly,) but the canvas can be stretched by pulling the corners away from each other. Again, you may have to wait for a real warm spell. The canvas, once it is propolized by the bees, keeps moisture from getting to the Triple-layer blanket. Make sure that nothing is caught in the lid frame that would let moisture into the attic area– not good.
IF the canvas isn’t fitting properly, use some old bath towels, rolled like a jelly roll, and push them into any gaps to stop the humidity from escaping the colony area and wait for warm weather in the spring to stretch the canvas back into shape.
When I check for food stores, I’ll follow Naomi’s advice and roll back my canvas/blanket from right to left until I’m at the right side edge of the brood area and working QUICKLY, check that food frame. I’ll remove it if empty, push all available honey frames to the left (towards the brood) or add a SockerMat.
Call me again if you’d like to chat, alright? I hope this helps!
I’m only down in zone 6 but we have plenty of below freezing temps. I put honey frames from my long hives into a deep and stack them on top, closing off the empty half of the long hive. I started doing that after 100% failure of getting a long hive colony through the winter.
I should say, I’m not talking about Valkyries, which because of the hinged roof you couldn’t stack like that. Mine are just doublewide deeps. I bought a Valkyrie for the express purpose of seeing if it could overwinter without the stacking, but I have not yet got a colony in it. It took me one hundred years to get it painted.
Hello Catrine, good to hear from you, even if I’m a year (?!?) late.
Place the trap on the slatted bars just under the bottom bars. Only the Triple-layer Blanket and the Inner Canvas Cover are to be on the top bars, with the exception of “strip-style” varroa treatments (MAQS or FormicPro). In those cases, be sure to put the strip in a “picture frame” to make sure that the strip doesn’t come into direct contact with the Inner Canvas. Your colony may try to chew this residue away and… ruined canvas.
On another note, check our video on YouTube that talks about a new SHB entrance we’re offering to the beeks in the southern states. I hope this helps?
Hello, I am new to this thread and live in Snohomish, Washington. Has anyone tried the Layens hive and had luck (Beekeeping With a Smile)? Currently, we have Longstroths and one long top-bar hive.
Hello all, I am about to become a Valkyrie hive owner and am really excited — seems to address the two huge challenges: lifting and squishing bees which is upsetting. My question is has anyone “run out of honey space” with the horizontal hive as we can’t add a super. I am assuming the solution would be to swap in frames in some sort of checkerboard, but how and when to do this? I would ‘t want to meddle with resulting negative consequences for the bees.
I would add that I live in Ottawa, Canada so the spring/summer is relatively short and we swings from -40 in the winter to 90 in the summer. It is always amazing that the bees manage to overwinter — but they do. Happy to share the experience (with fingers-crossed) this time next year. I love your blogs Rusty — thank you.
I haven’t gotten to the point of harvesting honey from my Valkyrie. (The colony did survive over its first winter.) I think the general idea is to just take a frame or two at a time of honey when there’s plenty of honey frames, and put in empty or foundation frames in their place. If the bees don’t have room to store honey, they’ll shrink their brood space (eventually yielding fewer foragers bringing in less honey) and/or swarm, which if you didn’t want to take any more honey (and you don’t have problem neighbors) is fine.
Hi Marian! Remember to send me some pics when you’ve got your Valkyrie “all dolled-up”, alright?
Naomi may want to chime in on this one as she’s seen honey harvests at 60-75 lbs. Rusty just recently posted a blog about the variations of bee behavior and production from apiary to apiary. No one colony or honey bee genetics can be reliably predicted to do anything 100% of the time, every time. We are dealing with females predominantly, after all right?
I haven’t received notice from any Valkyrie owner that “they ran out of room” but I’ve been told of plenty of “fat cows” that used 21+ frames in a season. I’ve also heard (and had one myself) of what I call “little girls” who used fewer frames– go figure. Worried about the size, here was the conversation: Naomi asked me, “Are they productive? (Yes). Bringing in forage and capping honey? (Yes.) Queen laying eggs? (Yes). Mite counts low? (Yes.) Then, where’s the problem? ” (Well, I guess I didn’t have one after all.)
As far as I know, isn’t it true that colony size decreases for over-wintering? So, there’s that: size doesn’t matter in the height of the season. So why buy more equipment? The supers used in a vertical hive are already included in our construction (24 frames) which is plenty of room. In the Valkyrie, the goal is to manage the colony, not the house they live in. Placing all the frames inside the Valkyrie with both the Inner Cover and TLWB covering the top bars, letting the girls move to the right, away from the entrance, is still the best plan. Our position is that the colony, well-managed, and with ample forage/nectar flows will thrive and produce more than enough honey to satisfy.
“… easier on the Beekeeper.” And I’m sure you’ll find it so, Marian. Thank you for your question!
Also, about my overwintered Valkyrie, I just went into it for the first time since last fall, and it has quite a bit of mold on frames at the end away from the entrance. I’d already been wishing that the entrance would open at least twice as wide as it does, and now I’m thinking Rusty’s idea of putting in some screened ventilation in the top is necessary here. I’d been hoping my climate was enough dryer than hers that I wouldn’t. I hate all realities that involve extra work for ME. Ugh.
I’ve been told that some pollens/bee bread will mold given the right weather or conditions. If you have our Triple-layer Wool blanket, the wool on the top layer and the Alpaca fleece in the center layer (batting) are each natural mold deterrents. I found mold along one top bar at the far right this year, removed it, and for good measure, I wiped the varroa drawer down with a bleach spray and allowed it to dry in the sun (it was one of our freakishly-hot days in the Central Oregon springtime.) All is well at this point– no more mold. May I mention that when frame-feeders (syrup-based), were removed from Valkyries across the US and the hive cleaned up– no more mold. Sugar syrup loves to mold in the heat and humidity of a bee hive. Actually, the simple syrup I make for iced tea has molded in our refrigerator as well.
All this to say: please do not add extra holes into your Valkyrie. One of the worst cases of long hive malfunction and water retention occurred when a beek cut 2″ holes on each gable end of the lid. Bruce made a new lid and we sent it and a new Triple-layer AND Inner Cover to the beekeepers with a “stern admonition” to leave the lid untouched. With all 24 frames properly placed inside and both covers set “edge-to-edge, corner-to-corner,” Voila! no more problems. I was told via email: “everything is dry as a bone.”
I didn’t reply to this earlier because this is one of the posts that won’t let me sign up for the comments.
My “that I wouldn’t” doesn’t really match its antecedents. I recommend neither of us tries to fix that because we’re not getting paid any copyeditor salary!
Also, totally off-topic, I collected my first single-handed swarm on the 23rd (Once upon a time, my partner had gone up on a roof and got one in a box and handed it down to me).
A stranger/neighbor got my name from the CT list of registered beekeepers, said his swarm was reachable from the ground, and he didn’t mind if I showed up with my hair and teeth unbrushed. Hah. So it went pretty well. I brought a sheet, a polystyrene nuc box, and a q-catcher. After a few stings, I went back home for my bee suit and an allergy pill. I managed to get most of the swarm into the box and locate and secure the queen, all while having a lovely conversation about native bees (which he also had lots of, some dirt-dwelling solitary-in-groups species in his yard) and honey bees.
Then I took the swarm home, added frames to the box, realized the q-catcher I’d used was too wide to fit between frames, and promptly lost the queen when I tried to move her to a narrower q-catcher.
I remembered your advice about looking around patiently–not one of my strengths!–to see if she came back. I never saw her come back, but the bees outside the open nuc box started settling in, so I added the frame I’d been about to rubberband the catcher on, and left the entrance open in case she was still outside. As of yesterday, the activity at the entrance looks totally organized and busy, so I hope she’s in there. I’ll wait a few more days and then check inside.
1. This is a page, not a post, and my pages are not designed to notify about new comments. I don’t remember why I did it this way, but you can blame me.
2. I usually unleash Grammarly on the comments. Many are perfectly clear, but some I can’t make sense of without Grammarly’s help. Yours are fine.
3. Isn’t nice to be a beekeeper with a working knowledge of other bees? I keep telling people that the more I learn about other bees, the better beekeeper I become. It provides depth of knowledge to all things “bee.”
4. I think your queen is in there. Don’t forget to let me know.
I had a little bit of brood in that nuc box, so she was in there. Then I had very little brood and an opened queen cell. Then I had no brood. And now I have drone brood. And the colony has been dwindling the whole time. I think they tried to supersede the queen, and failed, and are now “flying dead.” Sigh.
BUT, my garden is flowering nicely. I see plenty of bumble bee pollinators, and I THINK I recognized some buzz-pollination on tomatoes. I saw ONE honey bee in a squash flower, and one not-a-honey-bee, not-a-bumbler, but definitely a bee in another squash flower.
Roberta,
Well, yes, that is sad. But that’s part of beekeeping, right? I’m happy to hear you have other pollinators. I wonder what the other bee-in-a-squash is?
It looked vaguely mason-bee-ish? But as you know, my taxonomic skills are only just about up to honey bee/not a honey bee. Some years we’ve gotten quite a crop of mason bees in the wood pile, but I haven’t noticed them so much this year. Also, it’s easier to guess mason bees when you can see where they’re living, not just the vaguely honey-bee-sized-but-totally-not-a-honey-bee appearance.
Thanks all. I’ve just completed reading this thread. Vivien has now delivered our third Valkyrie, which will live in Seattle. The other two are in Hood River, OR, with new nucs installed in April. Too early to pull a split for the third hive.
A few observations:
1. It is much more pleasant to ‘work’ a Valkyrie than either my Langstroths or my TBHs (which I had in the past). The advantage over the TBH is that the standard deep frames are easier to extract, and not likely to be burr-combed to the walls. Also, less cross comb due to the guidance of the frame. Using the canvas cover and an additional ‘working cloth cover,’ you don’t need smoke, and the bees settle down as soon as they are ‘under cover.’ The advantage over Langstroths: NO LIFTING HEAVY BOXES! Also, less bee crushing while replacing boxes, or setting them down. You just need to brush them out of the way as you lower the hinged lid.
2. Like others, I noticed condensation in the unoccupied stretch of the hive body, whereas the window near the brood nest is dry. There is also slight mold on the inside of the wooden lid. I don’t know if this is anything to worry about. Naomi says leave it alone, the bees like humidity. Rusty says it’s under the roof, create a little ventilation there. I suppose I could do an experiment, one ventilated roof, one control?
3. Vivien recommended using the sugar boards (sockermats) instead of syrup. I like that. One of the new colonies is consuming 14 lbs of sugar every two weeks, the other consuming about 7 lbs. They don’t seem to mind that it isn’t dissolved in water. (We have a rough concrete fountain nearby for a water source.)
4. It seems it will be harder to identify the queen, as there is so much ‘sump’ space under the frames, in the large slatted area, for her to hide during inspections.
Hi Daniel! Good to see your comments, thank you for the kind words. Let’s talk about your point #4:
If you had accidentally knocked your Regent clean off of a frame, then you may see her on the slatted area. If the frame is shaken pretty hard, you may see her on the slats, but even so, she would make her way up the wall to return to her place, and to her retinue of “courtiers” (if I may) — those bees cleaning and feeding her, etc.
Rusty should chime in, but it seems to me that if a queen is found completely alone, isolated, wandering around the sump area, then there’s probably a reason she’s being ignored by the workers who normally provide her care. In which case you have a greater problem, right? Perhaps she’s failing for some reason?
Having said that, I had a queen in my garden Valkyrie who earned the nickname, “Wile E. Coyote” because she could speed from frame four to 18 so quickly. She was so sneaky! Keeping in mind a recent article from Rusty about not being too confident of the exact whereabouts of any queen, I’ve not heard of one in the sump area, or on the slats. I think you’re safe, my friend!
Hello everyone! I’m in Victoria, BC, and have a new-found interest in beekeeping. I am registered for the Beekeeping Course 2023 through the Ministry of Agricultural of BC.
I am hoping to build and use a Layens insulated horizontal hive. I’m hoping to start beekeeping in 2023. As a newBEE, I’m still learning and reading lots and am open to others’ ideas and thoughts. I love the idea of the horizontal hive but it seems most everyone uses vertical hives.
Are there any groups on our ‘wet coast’ (west coast, Pacific Northwest) that use horizontal hives? I would like to be able to chat with, ask questions and receive information from like-minded people.
Hello folks. Well, I’ve spent a very pleasant hour or so reading all the past posting. I’d like to thank you, Rusty, for creating this page. I found so many fine opinions and tidbits of advice to add to what I’ve learned so far about horizontal hives and the “care and feeding” of the residents therein. This spring will be the beginning of my second year of beekeeping. Over the winter I built my first horizontal hive and plan to launch it this spring. I’ve got 2 vertical hives over-wintering in the backyard and plan to split those when the time is right. The original reason for my interest in this type of hive was to experiment with it as an easier way to keep nucs managed. I like the idea of not having to lift anything other than the lid to check in on the girls. After this season I think there may be a very good chance that I will find myself busy building a few more “experiments”. Thanks everyone for all your comments and great descriptions of your experiences as you work at this wonderful skill of caring for bees.
Very much appreciate this discussion board, have had a Valkyrie for one season, starting on second. Posting so as to get updates, if there are any. Thanks!
I just acquired a Valkyrie long hive. I am painting it today.
This is my 2nd year as a beek, still very new…but did manage to overwinter both my hives (whew).
I am 60, and the boxes are too heavy. Hence the long hive.
Vivien had lots of information. She was great. Really great.
I do need to know…since I am so new…I’ve been running with plastic foundation. I’m not really ready to go foundation-less….I am hoping to split one of my very strong hives into the long hive.
So how do I set up the long hive?…..black plastic in the brood box area ie 1 thru 17ish…….. including on the right a couple frames of black foundation with honey/pollen/nectar…..
Then for the honey… do I put in deep frames with white plastic? as used in the medium supers for honey….? so I can be sure not to harvest/reuse brood stuff? I am very confused about this.
Thanks,
Carol
Naomi? How do you do you arrange your frames?
I set up my two Valkyrie hives with a split from my over wintered surviving hive.
I love these hives. I don’t need any help lifting anything, it’s amazing. The inner canvas cover keeps them calm during inspections, they are already over to slot 18 full of honey. I keep putting new frames in front of #3 and #9 frame. I had two observation windows installed. It is amazing to be able watch our precious girls hard at work.
I hope we get more posts about these hives. I’d like to connect with other Valkyrie users. Linda Grinde
Linda,
I agree. It is easy to lift the lid and check on things, and the canvas keeps them calm.
One question I have is where in the hive are you placing the inframe feeder, and are you getting a lot of drownings in the feeder?
Hi Linda,
I haven’t used a feeder in the Valkyrie yet.
Linda,
What do you mean “in front of” frames 3 and 9? Does that mean to the right?
C
How do I send picture?
Carol,
You have to email it to me rusty@honeybeesuite.com. Just add it as an attachment.
Carol,
Black plastic foundation on deep frames can be used in the brood area. The white foundation on deep frames can be used in the honey surplus section. The brood area usually consumes frames 1 through 12 and up to 18, depending on the race of honey bee.
My selected option is foundationless frames. I figured out that wedge-top Langstroth frames have a built-in starter strip. Pop off the wedge strip and glue it back onto its top bar, rather than nailing it to hold prepared foundation. For me, foundationless frames work without the cross combing, provided the top bar is aligned magnetic north and south. No division/follower board is necessary. Fill the long hive completely with frames (empty, w/foundation or drawn) from the get go.
Hi Rusty:
I use a feeder, (but not for much longer), cause my colony was stressed and very active when it came to me. It’s a regular boardman feeder, placed inside the Valkyrie in the space where frame #’s 18-22 would be. I keep frames #23 and #24 on the far right just to hold up my canvas and the Triple-Layer Wool blanket that I use. I’m not using a frame feeder nor am I putting any feeding stuff near the bee entrance so that I don’t attract robbers (thank you, Naomi!).
I’ll be removing the feeder in the future but not sure exactly when– I’ll ask Naomi!
Thanks for this site! Vivien
I’m only writing a comment so I can subscribe to the comment thread.
My long hives are Langstroth 20-frame double-wides, not Valkyries. I could try to send pictures, but my camera is a tablet, not even a phone, and my photography skills are just barely good enough for friends and family.
I just made my first split ever…I did about 50/50 from my very full overwintered Langstroth hive into my new Valkyrie.
Despite a lot of looking I could not find the queen…there were SO many bees in there…but there were multiple frames of capped/uncapped and eggs and very young larvae available to choose from. There were no swarm cells yet, but multiple cups on the bottom of the frames. I shook a LOT of nurse bees to the long hive too.
I’ll go back in to look for eggs and/or queen cells in a few days.
I’ve been very anxious about doing a split…now I’ve got my fingers crossed the bees figure it out.
I had to have my neighbor and associate bee geek come over to help, as the honey supers are so heavy and just thinking of having to manipulate all the boxes is enough to make me put off going into the hives. I can tell already the long hive is going to be much easier to deal with.
My neighbor is drooling. She wants!!
Carol
Hi Rusty,
Here are my hives, the long hive having just been leveled and set in place (hence the tractor).
I needed to do a split, so I didn’t get to take the time to paint it up like I wanted, but my 21 yr old daughter has suggested she cold do a mural, we will see (20 yr olds being who they are).
I did do my very first split today from my strongest hive. I could not find the queen but had lots of frames with eggs and young brood to choose from. No swarm cells, which I was expecting. I also found brood in the lowest honey super, a lot. That may be why I missed finding her!! I was expecting her in the brood boxes.
As advised by many people, I shook more nurse bees than I thought necessary. So the bees in the honey supers hanging out are they typically foragers? Or nurse bees?
After hefting around all those boxes today (we did my friends hives too) I am hoping the long hives perform. They certainly already seem easier.
Carol,
Thanks for the photo. If you every get a bigger one, send that along was well.
As for bees in honey supers, they are workers but not foragers or nurses. Some folks call them “receivers” because they receive the nectar from the foragers and place it in the cells.
Apparently I failed at the comments subscription, so here I go again. Feel free to delete this comment, unless it might help others feel better about their technological screwups.
Hello again. I’m hoping for more responders to this thread…:)
Have the receivers in the supers flown and oriented? I shook a lot of super bees into my split (easy to get to)just wondering if they will fly-back as the foragers will.
And as winter is coming I’m assuming I lay sugar cakes and eventually pollen on top of the bars as usual and drape the canvas over top?
And then with my 4-day-old split into a new long hive, I couldn’t find the queen when the split was done. So I was in looking today. I found multiple (15+) emergency cells all charged with larvae (fast girls).
I dropped everything and ran to the local bee place and got a queen as I didn’t want to wait the three weeks for a new one (blackberries are coming). And I now know where the original queen is…not in the split!!
But rather than lifting off a few boxes, (look at frames) then lifting all those boxes back on. (Run to town) then lift them off again (install queen) then put them back ON again…(done).
I lifted a lid twice and rolled up a canvas, Ha! the smoker was even still going when I got back from town! I think I’m going to be a walking advertisement for Langstroth compatible long hives. Can I get paid
Carol
Carol,
It sometimes takes a while to get attention to a new thread like this. I will try to promote it more, and see if that helps.
I don’t know where to put winter patties and feed. Like you, I’m totally new to this.
I still wasn’t getting the emails about new comments, but I finally noticed that I have been checking the “notify me of new posts” box. The “notify me of follow-up comments” option is completely missing. Is that just me?
Roberta,
I’m learning here, too. I set up this discussion as a page rather than a post. The reason being, I wanted to me able to put it on the drip-down menus. Turns out, pages don’t have the same notification options as posts. Who knew? So, I may change it to a post, but I’m not sure yet. Anyway, not your fault.
Oh thank goodness it’s not me. Also, here, have armsful of sympathy. Wouldn’t the internet be a wonderful thing if it would just do what we want instead of what it thinks we ought to want. You could then just take all your various mentions (and our various comments) of how the site isn’t doing what you/we want, and put them on their own post/page, instead of clogging up the bee stuff.
Hi. John here from New Zealand…In a hot summer flow at the moment. I have just made my own horizontal hive Lang. Where will the bees put their brood in these hives?
John,
Somewhere between the entrance and the middle, I suspect.
I made 8 long hives, 3 of which I use, the other 5 were given to my daughter and a couple friends. In each case the brood are in frames 1-7. My hives hold up to 35 frames.
So, so happy to find this thread, and I’ve bookmarked it. I’m a brand new beekeeper using a 31 frame long Lang. We installed a 5 frame nuc on May 2, so am in a steeeeeep learning curve at the moment, but all appears well at this point. Fortunately, my husband and I joined our local club. Most members use traditional Langs, there are a few top bar keepers, and I think we are the only ones with a long hive. Will be checking in here frequently. : )
My long hive was being robbed. I have sent Rusty pics of my 4 minute and 20 minute assembly time, home made robber screens I threw together….the 4 minute one worked about that long… (well…an afternoon actually). The 20 min one seems to be working.
I thought my hive was being robbed also!! So Scary!
Naomi, Larry and I split my first hive the day after I delivered Carol’s Valkyrie to her. Left the girls alone (not that I knew how to do otherwise,) to let the new queen do her thing. About 8 days later I described to Naomi what we both felt was certainly robbing activity, so I took away the feeders from both the Valkyries and covered them with wet sheets during the day to confuse the robbers.
On Naomi’s advice, I screwed up my courage to do a double inspection, looking carefully for ragged, torn cells on the frames which Naomi assured me couldn’t be mistaken. Here’s the mystery: NO DAMAGE at all in either Valkyrie, AND, in the new colony– voila! a new queen happily going about her business. Sooo…. I’ll look in on both colonies on Saturday. It seems that what I mistook in my neophyte-ness was a “feeding frenzy”?? Another beekeeper just a mile from me was going through the same thing: bees flying like fighter-pilots in large numbers due to an overwhelming nectar flow… like I knew that. :’)
Carol, let me know how yours are doing, ok?
Vivien
Hi,
When I pulled the bottom board a few days ago there was torn ragged comb pieces all over the place and the frames of nectar/pollen I had added with the split were empty and ragged.
I did the split on 5/21, found emergency queen cells on 5/24 and introduced a mated marked queen on 5/24 too, after destroying all the emergency cells. The queen cage was empty and I removed it on 5/27. Then the robbing began. I do have syrup in there.
I looked for eggs or the queen after seeing all the damage on 5/29…..couldn’t find her or eggs. I’m debating going back in to look for her again today. I hate I’ve been in there so much, but if she isn’t laying after 8 days, is she likely dead and gone?
There are still nurse bees and some capped brood, debating getting a frame more of capped brood from another hive to add. I’m thinking I should have just let them raise a queen. I’m not saving much time or money doing it this way!!!
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Carol
Good news, the robber screen seems to be working well.
I got into the long hive and found eggs….yay! The queen survived.
So I got into one of the other hives and got a frame with both sides solid with capped brood and added it to the long hive, which still has a lot of nurse bees to cover it. Added a piece of pollen patty too.
Hopefully its all good for a bit now.
Carol
Carol,
I don’t know why she took so long to lay, although a newly-mated queen sometimes gets off to a slow start—maybe just a few eggs the first day, and then a few more. It sounds like you’ve got the problem cleared up.
Hi Carol and Rusty!
My new queen got off to a very slow start also, so Carol, I can relate: I was so hesitant to look inside again. The older queen (inside the “Endurance” Valkyrie) is faring quite well, but, the new queen (in “Hope” Valkyrie), did indeed take a bit longer to get it together even though I’ve spied her more than once trucking around happily with her red dot.
The weather here has been so darned un-seasonally cold and VERY windy so I’ve put back in the feeder to help the new queen along. I’ll check her tomorrow for capped brood, etc. I’ve been doing whole-colony powdered sugar dustings on each colony and have a mite count down to 1-3, that’s another thing I’ll be doing tomorrow as well. The dusting (and even the rolling) sugar process is SO EASY with only the lid to lift and blankets to roll out of the way, too cool.
So sorry, Carol, to hear of the robbers: dirty rats! Hope all goes better!
Sincerely, V
Oh boy, now what do we new beeks do? We installed a 5 frame nuc into our new horizontal lang on May 2. The bees were very reluctant to build on new foundation, but the queen kept laying, and although spotty pattern, the population built up. Late last week, just as the Himalayan blackberries started blooming, activity out front picked up dramatically. We went in and did a complete inspection yesterday. Found the queen. Again noted no new brood frames, frames absolutely packed with bees, swarm cells on bottom of three frames, one frame being drawn for honey and partially full. I said I was concerned that with no expansion of the brood area, and the high population, the girls were going to swarm. Sometime today they did just that.
Went back in to quickly check. Population dropped by at least 1/3. No queen found. Larvae in at least two of those swarm cells. Still some eggs, larvae, and plenty of capped brood. Now into our main honey flow, do I order and overnight a queen, or let them requeen?
Dori,
That’s a judgement call. If it were me, I’d let them requeen themselves because I prefer locally adapted queens. The workers will keep bringing in nectar during the time the queen is maturing and mating. Everything you describe sounds normal, so I wouldn’t worry.
Thanks so much, Rusty. That’s what we’ll do. When I walked by this morning, the activity at the hive was so much calmer and pleasant. A nice steady hummmming, instead of the near roar we heard for a few days. Learning curve is fun, but steep! 🙂
Ok all you Valkyrie owners…
My Valkyrie has a new split of about a month or so. There are lots of eggs and open brood, some capped brood and some new white drawn comb, so the split is beginning to come along. I put in about 5 frames of drawn comb and bees when I did the split. I am still feeding 1:1 syrup which they are still going through fairly quickly.
My question… yesterday I peeked in the observation window on the right to check the syrup level, and the window was covered with condensation. (The syrup was empty.)
I opened the left window and it was dry.
Seems to be a ventilation issue going on?
Rusty in your picture of your purple hive I see you added a screened hole near the peak of the lid….Have you seen moisture accumulation? I think if its a problem now its gong to be very wet in the winter!!
I opened the bottom board halfway on that side to help dry it out, but was a bit concerned about drawing robbers to the scent of the syrup so close to the bottom screen.
I was advised to leave the wool over the canvas all the time for insulation against heat as well as cold, but now I’m wondering if this is not good.
I’d appreciate any comments!
Carol
Carol,
Good question. Because I firmly believe all beekeeping is local, I took the radical step of putting attic ventilation in my Valkyrie. The way I see it, the hive was designed for the desert, but I live at the edge of a rain forest. I didn’t add the holes right away, but two weeks after installing a split, the canvas cover was drenched in condensation. And you are correct, the window was fogging as well.
I never fed my split, figuring there was plenty of forage out there, so I know the condensation was not from a feeder. The colony, though, exploded in size after I installed them. They obviously feel at home in the Valkyrie, but I couldn’t leave them with a dripping canvas. Within a day of drilling the holes, the canvas cover dried completely. Problem solved. The holes were cut with a hole saw and covered on the inside with 1/8-inch wire mesh. I have plugs, too, color-coordinated in purple. It takes less than a minute to close the vents, if that’s what I want. My hive is mostly in shade, so it dries out less quickly than one in the sun, so that will make a difference, too.
I can tell you the split I put in there has filled the hive end-to-end. The bees certainly seem happy in it.
Also, I don’t have a wool blanket. I will get one before winter, but for now I’m going without, so I can’t give you any feedback on that.
Rusty,
So you drilled with the bees in there? I was wondering if I could get away with that!
I was trying to figure out if the feeder was the source of the moisture, the fact that the other window was dry, at the other end of the hive… makes me think the feeder might be part of the problem….my canvas has not been wet at all. My spilt got slowed by robbers but seems to have recovered.
Hmm…drill …..and staple gun go into the next equipment cart I guess…definitely will veil up for that!!
Carol
No you idiot. (me)…So I’m lying in bed thinking bees and it comes to me…duh…unscrew the hinges and take the lid OFF…simple as that…
I now have ventilation.
Carol,
That sounds kinda drastic, no?
Hi everyone!
A Valkyrie owner on the east coast ran into moisture problems caused by two feeders in one Valkyrie. Moisture dripping and condensation. The feeders were removed, we replaced her canvas cover (which had mildew) and also sent the 3-layer blanket as well. So far, problem solved. The hive is in an orchard with lots of sprinklers, but since her exterior finish was shedding the water just fine, it wasn’t the sprinklers.
Carol, I don’t recommend removing the lid at all mainly because it could really increase the chances of robbing from your hive (wouldn’t you think so as well, Rusty?). You run the risk of losing a lot of heat from the girls in comprising the intended function of the Valkyrie lid, and your brood may get too cold even with both the canvas and the 3 layer blanket. Remember, we warranty the lid (if it remains unaltered) for two full years.
Both colonies (mine) are doing great and we’ve had one of the coldest and wettest June’s I’ve seen in about 5 years— too much rain for my taste, but still, no problems with condensation.
Let me ask Naomi to weigh in on this…
Thanks, ladies, be right back! ❤ Vivien
Hi Vivien,
Yes, I believe that removing the roof could lead to robbing, rain entry, and early-morning dew problems, even with the canvas and blankets in place. Also predators such as wasps, mice, raccoons, and opossums could easily enter the hive.
I took the lid off to drill it….then replaced it. It was off for all of 15 minutes and then screwed back on. I just didn’t want to drill with it on the hive and totally piss off the bees. Which Im glad I did as the bit was more dull thanI expected and the wood more hard..
I apologize that came across so differently.
I did NOT just take off the top!!
C
Carol,
That is so funny! And so logical! I don’t know why I completely misunderstood. Sorry about that.
What size drill hole did you make and what do the vent plugs look like? I live in middle Tennessee and my hive is new (this season) and I have mold growing on the wet blanket… please help! I’ll get it done tomorrow. Also how many vents do you put in the attic?
Evie,
I used a 1.5-inch hole saw, and the plugs are the standard black plastic ones you can buy at Amazon. I put one on each end of the roof.
Bee stewards have a plethora of options to manage a honey bee colony. Many options in our tool kit may not be in the best interest of the colony, e.g., anthropomorphism. The Valhalla long hive, now the Valkyrie, was designed with the needs of a colony and not for any particular climate. I could not offer an engineer’s explanation for how this long hive functioned, just that the colony responded favorably through the seasons and over years.
In part, an engineer has weighed in on the discussion of humidity and condensation within a bee hive, albeit for wintering, it has shown me to be applicable year round. Please refer to Derek Mitchell’s article in the August 2017 American Bee Journal, “Honey Bee Engineering: Top Ventilation and Top Entrances.” Mitchell included excellent visuals to explain his findings. I will paraphrase from his article.
Research that started in 2011 was finally published settling the 100 year debate about hive ventilation. Derek Mitchell has a masters in engineering with a physics background. He repeated a long standing experiment from 1943. Mitchell took 2.3 million temperature measurements from 12 hives representative of 8 different styles. Conclusion: Colonies benefit from top insulation with only a bottom entrance. If you don’t insulate a hive, then it doesn’t matter how many vent holes, because the inside temperature will always be on the cool side: cool pool will be deeper and warm pool will be shallow.
Mitchell was asked by the ABJ editor about concern with not allowing warm, moist air to escape through a top vent hole, he answered: “This is all gone through in detail in my research article (1). The condition of cold condensation raining down on the bees only occurs in hives with high heat loss. Moist air is possible without condensation if the hive is insulated so that the surfaces above the bees are above the dew point. Numerous researchers show that the honey bees do best in a relative humidity of 75% plus at temperatures above 26C (2) including your frequent contributor Jamie Ellis.”
—————————————
The Valkyrie long hive considered that brood food is 70% water. Why would a colony not utilize the collection of moisture from their hive’s interior? A fogging viewing window is probably a result of 75% RH, the colony’s preference. Many of our skewed decisions about the hive’s interior would be dissolved by studying tree hives; I know it opened my eyes for the betterment of my managed colonies.
Well, I was all ready to be greatly insulted until I reread my post…..there WAS a bit of a leap there…
Stream of consciousness writing….I do it all the time and just assume people will get it.
C
Hi Carol and other long hive beekeepers,
I am not an eloquent writer, nor—by choice—tech savy. My comments just happened to land at the bottom of all conversations without malicious intent to offend. Seldom do I write about the many lessons I have learned managing my apiaries and visiting numerous others. My apologies to all.
Naomi
Naomi,
No offense taken by me, but I see anthropomorphism as a tool for both teaching and learning. I use it frequently as I did last week when I wrote, “I hate to anthropomorphize but….” Aesop was famous for using anthropomorphism as a literary device, as was Homer, Kipling, EB White, JK Rowling, and George Orwell.
A literature professor once explained to me that anthropomorphic statements are so clearly fiction that they have the power to expose greater truth. Since we allow our fictional minds greater freedom than our analytical minds, anthropomorphism allows us to make connections we might not otherwise make. The fiction allows us to overcome prejudices and preconceived ideas.
I can understand why someone might not like anthropomorphism, but for me it is an essential part of writing. And if my fictional wanderings bring an iota of understanding to someone, or if they bring a smile to an unknown reader, then I have met my goal.
Hey well.
I am a second year bee keeper, don’t know much. I am very pleased that Naomi has such a wide path of knowledge to share. I don’t think she writes badly at all. As opposed to my wandering consiousness. I want to see more of her thoughts here.
BUT IDK…Im seeing different things.
I must comment that since drilling the holes…and removing the wool….the bees have been more vigorous?
I did have a wet canvas…dripping!.. before I drilled ventilation, I removed the feeder also…
This was a split..so the timing may just be that drilling etc coincided with the hive starting to have workers start emerging en mass.
I believe Rusty mentioned that her hive took off after the vent holes were placed….?
I intend to replace the wool as winter approaches and hope it will function much like a moisture quilt.
I love this hive…so easy….Im trying to figure out how to convert the other hives to long ones…$$$$
Can anyone tell me if they have used OA on this Valkyrie or any other long hive..
Has it been effective…since the vapor needs to travel laterally..instead of straight up…..Should I vap both sides?
August is amazingly fast approaching and I will need to treat.
C
I am ready to treat my ‘new this spring from a split’ long hive with OA vap. I’m going to drop the canvas down alongside the last active frame…they have about 8 frames full and the rest are empty. I am going to treat as for a one deep brood Langstroth.
I am just semi-educated guessing on this…can anyone with long hives comment on how they have done it? I’m expecting 3-4 treatments at 4-5 day intervals. Following up with an alcohol wash and also counting mite board drops since I have the time and its fun and educational to watch.
Carol
Hi Carol!
I’m in contact with other Valkyrie owners in New York State and Georgia. In addition to myself and my two Valkyries, we’re all seeing mite counts of less than five using a total colony powdered sugar method. I clean the left bottom board completely, dust the entire colony with powdered sugar, (I use the hive brush to “wipe” the sugar from the top bars down into the spaces between the frames,) and then wait 10-15 min to collect all of the stuff that falls to the bottom board. I’ll use a plastic container to get all of the sugar, add some water to dissolve it, then pour it through a coffee filter. When it’s drained, I count the little devils. So far, less than three is the count since May. NY and GA both concur with similar reports.
Naomi had educated me (again, forever…) that in humidity levels above 80% the Varroa devils have a harder time reproducing, It was humidity, right Naomi? Since NY, GA and I are each using the 3-layer wool blanket, I’m hoping that’s the reason? Let me qualify that: I don’t have any scientific study to back that up, but, I like the way it sounds…
I need to follow up with a rolling sugar test: half-cup of bees in two processes, timed, and then I can compare the two mite counts.
I’ll be back as soon as I can with really high heat temps and the bearding behavior of my colonies here in Central Oregon—very strange and wonderful.
V
About the Oxalic Acid Vapor:
A Valkyrie owner says he really appreciates the bottom drawer underneath the screen drawer in the Valkyrie because he says that the vapor still travels throughout the hive, but, the bees can’t get near or touch the acid strips themselves? He places the stuff directly on the bottom drawer, I would assume on the left side… I’ll have to ask him.
Not having used OA, I have no reference point, but Mark seems really pleased! V
Hi Valkyrie owners! Here’s my latest…
Let’s talk plastic foundation: I never knew that the foundation sold has a triangle “punch-out” on the lower corner. Never knew that the beekeeper is supposed to remove it so that the ladies have a “hiking path” to travel within the frames during the Winter/Spring to access food stores (either their own, or those provided by the beekeeper). I’m sending a picture sent to me by Valkyrie owner Ms. Vorbach of New York State. Never knew that the cold-weather cluster could expand or contract as needed from softball to football size. Thank you, Naomi for the education– as usual!
Paraphrasing from Naomi: “Clustering is a difficult concept for us to understand when we don’t usually get to see it on the frames. A swarm cluster is what we usually picture in our minds, in contrast with a housed colony clustering on frames. I hope the thermal images help with the visualization. The colony does cluster in a long hive, it just can be more horizontal than vertical as in a vertical hive, e.g. Warré or Langstroth.
The cluster travels from frame to frame (if necessary) around the sides of frames (there is bee space, check it out), travel ports (they make their own on foundationless or popped corners in foundation), and via burr comb between frames in vertical boxes.
Bee space of 3/8” allows the girls to travel 2 at a time…as a group.”
I’m going to do this myself for each of my Valkyrie Long Hives: I’ll be testing each frame for plastic foundation. One way to tell is that the foundation will predominantly be worker-sized cells. You can purchase foundation made up of drone-sized cells, of course, but those are green (as opposed to yellow?). I’ll use a screw-driver to gently push on the upper corner of the frame and if I can push it through; if it gives, then it’s truly bee-created wax, which they can easily create their own “hiking path” upon. When I find a frame with plastic foundation, I’ll move it into position #2 or #3, closest to the entrance. Naomi said that the cluster is more often moving to the right looking for more food during the cold weather “shut down” rather than towards the entrance, if I’ve remembered it correctly. Now, my colonies each have maybe one frame of plastic foundation that I can easily see, but, if I had more than one, how I should create a “pathway” for the girls along the upper corner (either right or left,) or along the top bar– I don’t know. I’ll get back to you on that one.
The mysterious (and hitherto almost unknown) plastic triangle is most often located on a bottom corner of the frame. This isn’t very nice to the bees in that it forces them to move downward where all of the colder air is hovering, as they search of food. The answer (in a NEW AND UNUSED frame with foundation) is to remove the triangle, slide the foundation out of the frame and flip it so that the empty space is at the TOP bar rather than the bottom, slide it back into place and reconnect the top bar. Voila! ready to go. In my colonies, I need to point out, I won’t be using any foundation at all: that’s my preference. As soon as I can remove the foundation-ed frames, I will.
Here’s the scary part: can you just imagine HOW MANY BEEKEEPERS LOST AN ENTIRE COLONY over the winter and never knew that maybe it was because the cluster had no “pathway” through which to gain access to the food??? How many beekeepers, not knowing about the plastic triangle, lovingly placed more than enough food to keep the ladies happy through the Winter and Spring and yet, the bees never actually ate it? Sad.
On an aside: in the Valkyrie, the cold air is sumped downward into the extra space below the bottom bar and above the slatted area, which makes it much easier for the girls to avoid the cold. Could the ladies walk down the frame and across the bottom bar then back up to where the food is? Yes, but, why would they? It’s too cold. They’ll want to stay up where the warmest air is, right?
Rusty, if you’ve any suggestions for creating a pathway in an already occupied frame that can’t be moved to the #2 or #3 position, please let me know!
Ride on, ye Valkyries!
Vivien
Let’s talk cold-weather warmth and the Valkyrie.
On my smaller colony, “Elpis” (Hope), I’ve started supplementing with sugar syrup 1:1. I’ve colored it blue/green so I can easily see the difference on the frames between what the ladies gathered and what I’ve provided. Because this colony is so small, I’ll be removing frame #’s 11-24 and putting inside a blocker board (frame #10 as it were,) and a stack of blankets in the empty space to the right. I’ve been wanting to see an “upside-down horseshoe” of stored honey on at least 5 frames, and the girls are really trying, but the stores aren’t there yet and we’re on a fast clip to September 1st. I’ll leave any honey present for her to use during Winter/Spring.
(Rusty, I’ve sent you some heat-sensor photos– FLIR camera– from Naomi that show a horizontal layout of the Winter cluster within two different Valkyries that she owns. Very interesting!)
Because I’ll have the inner canvas cover as well as the Triple-Layer Blanket, I believe that Hope will stay warmer and use less energy keeping themselves warm and may not need tremendous amounts of food. I’ll be putting food on top of the top bars in cake/slab form (again, because she’s so small)– pictures to follow soon. Because the colder air will be sinking way down to the slatted/drawer “sump” area, further away from the cluster, it seems that this will be another benefit which eases the workload on the ladies. Cold air trying to enter the Valkyrie from snow underneath the hive will be abated by the insulation slab, and the awning above the entrance will help keep snow/ice/rain from entering the hive. I’ll snug down the entrance slide to 1 bee width.
“Hypomone” (Endurance) is another matter. She’s fat. And big. And has the “honey horseshoe”(sometimes 2-3 inches thickness,) on frame #s 7-12 and on #3 and 4. And she’s fat. Quite pleased with herself, in fact. Her, I’ll leave alone: not gonna touch any of the honey, she gets it all. I won’t be putting any food on the top bars– leap of faith, right? After making sure that any plastic foundation has a “pathway” I’ll leave the canvas and Triple Layer just where they are. I’ll snug down the entrance door slide to 1 bee-width, and there you have it. May the fat lady sing all through the Winter and Spring!
Glad for any feedback you may have, fondly, Vivien
My long hive has stored no honey. It was a hefty split this spring, bolstered with extra brood early on. I built a robber screen for the hive in late June and it has been in place all summer. They increased frames over the summer.
There are now perhaps 7 frames full of bees, but in August they had no honey, and only a small amount of nectar. Queen and brood were present.
My two other traditional hives gave me 13 gallons in honey supers, plus filled their brood boxes.
I treated for varroa in mid August. I began 2:1 syrup in early September. October 5th I inspected and now they have a ton of nectar….on every frame, no capped honey.
Is this nectar too late? Can they get it converted it to capped honey this late in the year? Or alternately, can they use nectar for food in the winter?
Carol
Carol,
It sounds like they stored all that syrup, so most likely it’s just syrup and not nectar that you are seeing. They may cap some of it before winter, or not. But it doesn’t really matter. They can eat it just the same.
Good morning, Rusty:
Here’s an update: I chose not to put any food at all on the top bars of the frames in my Valkyries. Instead I’ve put two SockerMats in each colony: one near the entrance to the left of the brood area, and one to the right of their honey stores; the reasoning being that I’d like the girls to eat their own honey before they access the SockerMat.
My colonies, being the “guinea pigs” have SockerMats that vary in composition: one frame each of 100% granulated sugar, 50-50% granulated:superfine sugar, 100% superfine sugar, and 30% superfine:70% granulated. Since each Valkyrie got only two SockerMats, it’ll be interesting to see if the bees had a preference of one recipe over the other. I used the 1/8″ wire mesh for each frame, not plastic foundation, and each SockerMat weighs about 6 lbs. This equals about 12 lbs food plus the honey and nectar/syrup that the bees had stored-up themselves.
I’m not wrapping the exterior of the Valkyries in anything; simply putting straw bales near the NW corners to block the worst of the harsh winds and snow that come galloping across the acreage. The Inner canvas has been thickly propolized to seal in heat, and the Triple-Layer Wool Blankets that lie on the canvas are tucked into place.
Spring should be interesting for us, and I’ll keep you posted.
Vivien
Here’s another update:
The Endurance colony was in far too much shade (quel horreur!); night-time temps were in the low 20’s, so I had to do an emergency move. In the Spring, when I had placed the hive, there was plenty of sun all day… didn’t factor in the earth movement—duh.
So Bruce and I lifted the hive and walked it two acres away to it’s new location. We first located, leveled and positioned the hive stand at magnetic north/south so when we gently lowered the Valkyrie into place, all was in readiness.
Then a few bees slowly made their way out of the hive and flew in small figure-eights near the entrance. In the past few days, I’ve seen more than 10-15 at the entrance, coming and going, while about 5 bees flying around at the previous location looking confused, or was that peeved?
This colony is aptly named: “Hypomone”—Endurance. Yep, she needs that, alright!
V
Hello, I have been interested in beekeeping for years, but have never taken the leap to try on my own. One thing that has kept me from starting this is it seems beekeepers, even backyard hobbyist, never seem to have just one hive. I understand there are advantages to having 2. But it seems 2 often becomes 4, then more and move…. I really don’t want to fill my yard with hives. Is it realistic to enjoy all aspects of this hobby with only 1 or 2 healthy hives? After tons of reading and classes, I keep coming back to the horizontal hive. I live in the Seattle area and would love to connect with others using the horizontal hive.
Susan,
There is no reason in the world that you need to have more than one or two hives. Two is the logical choice because, if you lose a queen, you can usually raise another from eggs.
I am strongly considering getting a horizontal hive. I currently have an 8 frame Langstroth hive and it is my second year as a beekeeper. The horizontal hives look like they would be so much easier to work and less disruptive to the bees. Are there any books that explain in detail how to set up and work a horizontal hive. Is there a difference between a horizontal hive and a Valkyrie hive or are they just different name for the same thing?
I am in my third year of beekeeping and have mostly Langstroth hives but I do have one long Lang using deep frames. It is great lifting a lid rather than multiple boxes but the colony in my long Lang seems to struggle and is by far my weakest hive. I look forward to learning more about this style of beekeeping. Where can I find plans for the Valkyrie hive?
I have 2 new long hives ready for spring. They can hold 29 frames, have 3 entrances on the side. I am trying to switch from the Langstroth hives as my back can’t handle the lifting. (Heading for 65th bd.) Right now I have 2 hives and a nuc. I see everyone is making splits. Would I be better off putting in the nuc and just making splits off of the other hives as a backup? Am very nervous about this as no one has long hives in our bee clubs. Appreciate any advice on this.
Marti,
Bees behave basically the same, no matter the shape of their home, so don’t be nervous. You can do it either way. I just took the ten frames from a Langstroth and set them in a long hive. Later, you can make splits (or not) from your long hive.
I am moving to a Valkyrie hive this year because Langstroths are too heavy for me, they always were, now it’s worse. I was finding it difficult to manage what I could not physically manage so hopefully this is going to be better. I have never tried this kind of a hive before so I am going to be on a steep learning curve. Here is my question: I am reading about placement in alignment with north/south magnetic poles. This is new to me, what’s the reasoning? BTW: this series of discussions has been really helpful. sk
Sharon,
Here’s an article about honey bees and magnetic fields that explains the phenomenon in detail.
Hi there,
This will be my first year with two Valkyrie hives — thanks, Vivien!
I’m posting so I can subscribe to updates.
I’ve been reading through all the posts here and enjoying all the information.
In one of the posts, a “Sockermat” was mentioned. I tried to search that term to understand what it is and how it’s made. I was not able to find much. Can someone give an explanation of what it is and how to make one?
Also, in the posts there are photos mentioned. Where can those photos be seen?
Thank you!
Some information on the sockermat is in this post. It’s basically hard sugar in a wire mesh frame that hangs vertically.
Hi All,
I love your website Rusty, thank you. I am installing a new package of Carniolan bees in a long hive that my husband and I built this winter. I am starting my second year as a beekeeper and am looking forward to trying horizontal vs. vertical hives. It’s a bit frustrating how little information there is on the web about managing a horizontal hive. Fingers crossed all goes well today.
Jennifer
Hi! I have a double horizontal hive (each side holds 15 deeps) with hinged supers. I’m posting so I can get updates as well.
Thank you for your amazingly informative site!
Laurie
Last summer I split Carnies into a Valkarie. The hive struggled with robbing but eventually grew. It wintered over and is strong now, 12 frames + of bees, all stages of young, I see the queen.
It does not seem to move laterally to make honey or store nectar. Last summer it could have easily, but it stored almost no honey, I fed it. This spring is the same.
Is there some method I’m missing to get them to move sideways? They drew comb this spring to bridge the frames to the slatted rack. I just removed all that this week. Lots of eggs and drones.
My langs have an almost full super right now. I added another, and this Valkarie has nothing…a few arches of nectar is all. I’m not sure why.
If and when they DO start making honey, how do you differentiate the frames that have have been treated with miticide? Seeing that there is no clear boundary like in adding a super to a Lang.
Carol
Carol,
I think it’s the individual colony, rather than the hive shape, that is causing the lack of honey. Not all colonies will produce at the same rate. I have no honey in any of my supers right now, but my bees are raising lots of brood which requires lots of resources. Many bees that normally collect nectar are probably out collecting pollen instead.
You can force bees to do something they don’t want to do. It’s best to relax because coaxing will wear on you, not them.
As for the treatment question, it depends on the product. If the product says not to use with honey supers in place, you need to take them off completely because the bees will move the product everywhere, even into the supers. A simple boundary won’t work. If it says you can leave supers on, then you don’t need a boundary between supers and brood boxes because it doesn’t matter.
Hello all,
I’m into my third year with a 30-frame long Langstrogh horizontal hive. Zone 7b. I really like the horizontal hive (I also have 10- and 8-frame traditional Langs) and am building another at this time. I am going to rig a queen excluder (follower-board style) because my queen will lay almost end to end, I think because there is no honey cap. Another issue is during the winter when my colony is at 14 to 16 frames, the empty space beyond the follower board gets mildew even though I have vent holes. This hive has been outstanding in production, and is so easy to work due to the fact that you can add or take away any number of frames in any position in the hive. Any advice on the mildew problem will be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi all,
This year’s colony of package Italians is doing great. In my 30 frame horizontal we have near 20 built out and crowded frames, plus 5 more being used for hanging out. I plan to use an oxalic acid dribble in late fall, but I need to treat for varroa now. What would you recommend? I’m leaning toward Formic Pro but am not sure how to use the product in the context of a long hive. Thank you!
Or oxalic acid now and then again around the winter solstice?
Dori,
I use the Formic Pro in my long hives. I try to place the two strips over the brood, but spread out a little wider from each other than they would be in a ten-frame.
Roberta,
FedEx just delivered my Formic Pro order and I was sitting here staring at the package, wondering…. Checked in here and found your message. What you do is what I had decided to do. Now I feel a little more confident. Thanks so much! J
(Just did a very quick check on the hive, the girls are sure kicking out the drones now! Fall is coming.)
Quick follow up…
Very successful 14 day treatment with the Formic Pro strips, placed as recommended by Roberta. Sticky trays show 1k+ mites, the 24 hr check prior to treatment was 55. Some drop in population, but not substantial. Mood of colony seems calmer than before treatment. We’ll be going in this coming weekend (weather permitting) to do a full inspection, look for queen, etc. Girls are busy on cosmos, dwarf oregano, thyme, mint, and autumn joy sedums which are just coming into bloom.
I will have two Kenyan-style top-bar hives but can adapt the sockermat to my hive. I assume the sugar is on the bee side and the mesh is on the away side of the bees? Also, would there be any reason I could not hang two sockermats back to back to provide an extra layer of insurance that they won’t run out of food? I assume the three tunnels would provide them with passageway to the second sockermat or I could always just use #4 hardware cloth as well.
Thanks,
Kevin
Kevin,
I will pass this on to the experts.
Kevin,
You most certainly can back-to-back SockerMats within a colony. I doubled this insurance policy on some of my colonies for the winter. When a consistent nectar supply starts coming back to the colony, the bees will ignore the SockerMats; time to remove and place the sugar frames into storage.
Thanks, Naomi, for answering!
I would only add that, when using a 1/4″ hardware cloth, the bees can eat from either side of the SockerMat, which makes placement less worrisome, and yes, the three holes at the top-bar will be fine for them to travel.
Thanks, Kevin, for your question!
I have a question about horizontal hives. Are queen excluders used in horizontal beehives? I haven’t been able to find the answer to that question anywhere. Sorry. I am researching this because my daughter wants to get into beekeeping.
Thank you for any help you can provide.
Keith,
Not that I know about. Someone else may have more info.
I read the post last year about Formic Pro. I have or had a very strong horizontal hive. New this year and filled 25 frames over the season. Midsummer I had a high mite count. I found what info I could about how to use Formic in the long hive and basically did as described. The wash I did a month later had a much higher count and I figured this wonderful colony was doomed. It was suggested to hit them hard with another round of Formic Pro. I did this, and a couple of weeks later did another mite count it is the same! The Formic is well within it’s expiration date. My queen is alive – whew. Now what – I’m at a loss. Oxalic acid vaporization maybe. The colony has a much lower population now but things are slowing down in Maine at this time of year, they have larvae and lots of honey stored. I did an alcohol wash two days ago with a half cup of bees and shook out 48 mites! Any suggestion is helpful at this point.
Ann,
I would try a different treatment. It shouldn’t matter which one as long as it is not based on formic acid. You could use ApiLife var or Hopguard or oxalic acid, anything with a different mode of action.
I am so glad I located this site. I am new with horizontal hives, actually I am new at bee keeping. I look forward to learning more as we go along.
First-year beekeeper. We caught a swarm in late June and built a long hive (~28 deep frames, horizontal) w/ 2 peek windows, bottom screen, and cookie sheets with oil. I am in LOVE with bees, have learned so much already, and am thankful for your site, Rusty.
Our bees “have action” on 12 frames, but only have honey +/or bees on 8.5 frames. are there too few to keep the hive warm enough? We had ~20 MAX capped brood Oct. 14 and saw the queen. There is honey/nectar… I don’t know if it is enough. I moved our follower board much closer to the bees, have fed some 2:1, and sewed wool pillows to lay on top of the inner cover. Will add some wood chips for moisture. Inner cover has three screened vent holes.
Kirsten,
It sounds like the colony may be a bit light on honey, although a lot depends on the size of the colony and the harshness of the winter. Give them a frame of feed just to be on the safe side, and check them for stores now and then.
I have one Valkyre hive, they are doing great. I left most of the honey in the hive for a food supply. Struggling with mites, using a oxalic acid dribble, how often can I treat them?
What should I do when the blanket and canvas become wet? I would think I need to dry them out, but how? It’s chilly here and really windy I’m afraid to uncover the hive.
This site is great!
Hello!
I am new to long hives but am enjoying the ease of them immensely! I am a new beek. Can anyone share a checklist for going into the winter? I have two Valkerie hives. How do you feed them in the winter? Are any resources available to read? I just want my two hives to make it thru the typically mild Georgia winter! Thanks in advance!
Kindly show me the picture of a Long beehive
Moses,
The photos at the top of this post show a long hive.
I finally splurged on a Valkyrie, getting it early for next spring because painting (or should I say “getting around to painting”) is likely to take months. I am wondering if I should paint the insulation piece that goes underneath. I asked this (weeks ago?) on the website where I ordered, but haven’t heard back.
Roberta,
I don’t know. Sunlight can breakdown that type of insulation I believe, so some people paint it. Mine doesn’t get much sun, so I didn’t paint it. It’s optional, I suspect.
Hi Roberta! Glad your Valkyrie arrived safely!
I’m sorry about the website confusion! Our site shut down for about a week (hosting problems) but all emails should be forwarded directly to my “working” email: vivienhight@ymail.com. I’ll take a look in my spam folder (where it shouldn’t have landed) and see if I can find you.
The stand insulation is well protected by the hive body itself, so there’s no need to paint it. After some years it will “bleach out” but that won’t affect the performance. You could paint the stand with no problem. If you have laying hens who decide to peck the insulation brick to bits, we always have more to sell/ship to you. Ask me how I know they might do this. : ‘ )
Hi Janis! Glad you’re enjoying the Valkyries from Sandra:
Not being familiar with the Georgian climate, I would talk with Sandra as she was able to over-winter her Valkyrie colonies. With that being said, (and with a strong caveat: DO WHAT IS BEST IN YOUR JUDGEMENT FOR YOUR COLONY), what I did for mine was push the colony to the left, leaving frames 1 and 2 empty (without foundation), Frame #3 I wanted to be full of food and then, the main brood area. All the frames to the right of the main brood area I wanted to have plenty of hiking trails and lots of honey. I was looking for honey stores on the brood frames themselves to have capped honey along the top- and side-bars as well. With straw bales to block the worst of the icy winter winds, the girls should be alright. Even so, I’ll be checking during the warm streaks that we sometimes get over here to make sure that there’s plenty of food next to the brood area. I’ll use a SockerMat if there seems to be a need for it.
Keep the Inner Canvas tightly pressed edge-to-edge, corner-to-corner to seal in the heat, and the same goes for the Triple-layer Blanket. Hope that helps?
Vivien
Hi Betty, I was just near your area a few weeks ago!
In truth, your blanket and canvas should not be wet.
Make sure that the canvas is tightly fitting to all the edges where the frames rest. There should be no gaps. It is probably too cold to do it now without some serious forethought (so that you can work quickly,) but the canvas can be stretched by pulling the corners away from each other. Again, you may have to wait for a real warm spell. The canvas, once it is propolized by the bees, keeps moisture from getting to the Triple-layer blanket. Make sure that nothing is caught in the lid frame that would let moisture into the attic area– not good.
IF the canvas isn’t fitting properly, use some old bath towels, rolled like a jelly roll, and push them into any gaps to stop the humidity from escaping the colony area and wait for warm weather in the spring to stretch the canvas back into shape.
When I check for food stores, I’ll follow Naomi’s advice and roll back my canvas/blanket from right to left until I’m at the right side edge of the brood area and working QUICKLY, check that food frame. I’ll remove it if empty, push all available honey frames to the left (towards the brood) or add a SockerMat.
Call me again if you’d like to chat, alright? I hope this helps!
Vivien
Hi where did you buy your hives? I can’t find any in a good price range?
Brian,
Mine came from The Beekeeper’s Carpenter in Redmond, Oregon.
Hi were do you buy your hives?
I’m curious if anyone has wintered horizontal hives in a cold dry climate? I’m in northern Canada, (Zone 3b for plant hardiness).
I’m only down in zone 6 but we have plenty of below freezing temps. I put honey frames from my long hives into a deep and stack them on top, closing off the empty half of the long hive. I started doing that after 100% failure of getting a long hive colony through the winter.
I should say, I’m not talking about Valkyries, which because of the hinged roof you couldn’t stack like that. Mine are just doublewide deeps. I bought a Valkyrie for the express purpose of seeing if it could overwinter without the stacking, but I have not yet got a colony in it. It took me one hundred years to get it painted.
Any suggestions as to the best way to place a SHB trap in a Valkyrie hive? Will the top canvas cover work with it?
Hello Catrine, good to hear from you, even if I’m a year (?!?) late.
Place the trap on the slatted bars just under the bottom bars. Only the Triple-layer Blanket and the Inner Canvas Cover are to be on the top bars, with the exception of “strip-style” varroa treatments (MAQS or FormicPro). In those cases, be sure to put the strip in a “picture frame” to make sure that the strip doesn’t come into direct contact with the Inner Canvas. Your colony may try to chew this residue away and… ruined canvas.
On another note, check our video on YouTube that talks about a new SHB entrance we’re offering to the beeks in the southern states. I hope this helps?
PA Beekeeper here wondering if this works in that region or has been tested?
Dustin,
Long hives have been around a long time, and they definitely work in Pennsylvania.
Hello, I am new to this thread and live in Snohomish, Washington. Has anyone tried the Layens hive and had luck (Beekeeping With a Smile)? Currently, we have Longstroths and one long top-bar hive.
Hello all, I am about to become a Valkyrie hive owner and am really excited — seems to address the two huge challenges: lifting and squishing bees which is upsetting. My question is has anyone “run out of honey space” with the horizontal hive as we can’t add a super. I am assuming the solution would be to swap in frames in some sort of checkerboard, but how and when to do this? I would ‘t want to meddle with resulting negative consequences for the bees.
I would add that I live in Ottawa, Canada so the spring/summer is relatively short and we swings from -40 in the winter to 90 in the summer. It is always amazing that the bees manage to overwinter — but they do. Happy to share the experience (with fingers-crossed) this time next year. I love your blogs Rusty — thank you.
I haven’t gotten to the point of harvesting honey from my Valkyrie. (The colony did survive over its first winter.) I think the general idea is to just take a frame or two at a time of honey when there’s plenty of honey frames, and put in empty or foundation frames in their place. If the bees don’t have room to store honey, they’ll shrink their brood space (eventually yielding fewer foragers bringing in less honey) and/or swarm, which if you didn’t want to take any more honey (and you don’t have problem neighbors) is fine.
Hi Marian! Remember to send me some pics when you’ve got your Valkyrie “all dolled-up”, alright?
Naomi may want to chime in on this one as she’s seen honey harvests at 60-75 lbs. Rusty just recently posted a blog about the variations of bee behavior and production from apiary to apiary. No one colony or honey bee genetics can be reliably predicted to do anything 100% of the time, every time. We are dealing with females predominantly, after all right?
I haven’t received notice from any Valkyrie owner that “they ran out of room” but I’ve been told of plenty of “fat cows” that used 21+ frames in a season. I’ve also heard (and had one myself) of what I call “little girls” who used fewer frames– go figure. Worried about the size, here was the conversation: Naomi asked me, “Are they productive? (Yes). Bringing in forage and capping honey? (Yes.) Queen laying eggs? (Yes). Mite counts low? (Yes.) Then, where’s the problem? ” (Well, I guess I didn’t have one after all.)
As far as I know, isn’t it true that colony size decreases for over-wintering? So, there’s that: size doesn’t matter in the height of the season. So why buy more equipment? The supers used in a vertical hive are already included in our construction (24 frames) which is plenty of room. In the Valkyrie, the goal is to manage the colony, not the house they live in. Placing all the frames inside the Valkyrie with both the Inner Cover and TLWB covering the top bars, letting the girls move to the right, away from the entrance, is still the best plan. Our position is that the colony, well-managed, and with ample forage/nectar flows will thrive and produce more than enough honey to satisfy.
“… easier on the Beekeeper.” And I’m sure you’ll find it so, Marian. Thank you for your question!
Also, about my overwintered Valkyrie, I just went into it for the first time since last fall, and it has quite a bit of mold on frames at the end away from the entrance. I’d already been wishing that the entrance would open at least twice as wide as it does, and now I’m thinking Rusty’s idea of putting in some screened ventilation in the top is necessary here. I’d been hoping my climate was enough dryer than hers that I wouldn’t. I hate all realities that involve extra work for ME. Ugh.
Hi Granny!
I’ve been told that some pollens/bee bread will mold given the right weather or conditions. If you have our Triple-layer Wool blanket, the wool on the top layer and the Alpaca fleece in the center layer (batting) are each natural mold deterrents. I found mold along one top bar at the far right this year, removed it, and for good measure, I wiped the varroa drawer down with a bleach spray and allowed it to dry in the sun (it was one of our freakishly-hot days in the Central Oregon springtime.) All is well at this point– no more mold. May I mention that when frame-feeders (syrup-based), were removed from Valkyries across the US and the hive cleaned up– no more mold. Sugar syrup loves to mold in the heat and humidity of a bee hive. Actually, the simple syrup I make for iced tea has molded in our refrigerator as well.
All this to say: please do not add extra holes into your Valkyrie. One of the worst cases of long hive malfunction and water retention occurred when a beek cut 2″ holes on each gable end of the lid. Bruce made a new lid and we sent it and a new Triple-layer AND Inner Cover to the beekeepers with a “stern admonition” to leave the lid untouched. With all 24 frames properly placed inside and both covers set “edge-to-edge, corner-to-corner,” Voila! no more problems. I was told via email: “everything is dry as a bone.”
I hope this helps?
Also, can I edit my grammar. Triple Ugh.
Roberta,
Tell me what to edit. My grammar checker doesn’t flag anything in your last comment.
I didn’t reply to this earlier because this is one of the posts that won’t let me sign up for the comments.
My “that I wouldn’t” doesn’t really match its antecedents. I recommend neither of us tries to fix that because we’re not getting paid any copyeditor salary!
Also, totally off-topic, I collected my first single-handed swarm on the 23rd (Once upon a time, my partner had gone up on a roof and got one in a box and handed it down to me).
A stranger/neighbor got my name from the CT list of registered beekeepers, said his swarm was reachable from the ground, and he didn’t mind if I showed up with my hair and teeth unbrushed. Hah. So it went pretty well. I brought a sheet, a polystyrene nuc box, and a q-catcher. After a few stings, I went back home for my bee suit and an allergy pill. I managed to get most of the swarm into the box and locate and secure the queen, all while having a lovely conversation about native bees (which he also had lots of, some dirt-dwelling solitary-in-groups species in his yard) and honey bees.
Then I took the swarm home, added frames to the box, realized the q-catcher I’d used was too wide to fit between frames, and promptly lost the queen when I tried to move her to a narrower q-catcher.
I remembered your advice about looking around patiently–not one of my strengths!–to see if she came back. I never saw her come back, but the bees outside the open nuc box started settling in, so I added the frame I’d been about to rubberband the catcher on, and left the entrance open in case she was still outside. As of yesterday, the activity at the entrance looks totally organized and busy, so I hope she’s in there. I’ll wait a few more days and then check inside.
Roberta,
My random comments:
1. This is a page, not a post, and my pages are not designed to notify about new comments. I don’t remember why I did it this way, but you can blame me.
2. I usually unleash Grammarly on the comments. Many are perfectly clear, but some I can’t make sense of without Grammarly’s help. Yours are fine.
3. Isn’t nice to be a beekeeper with a working knowledge of other bees? I keep telling people that the more I learn about other bees, the better beekeeper I become. It provides depth of knowledge to all things “bee.”
4. I think your queen is in there. Don’t forget to let me know.
I hate to write about bad news, but here goes:
I had a little bit of brood in that nuc box, so she was in there. Then I had very little brood and an opened queen cell. Then I had no brood. And now I have drone brood. And the colony has been dwindling the whole time. I think they tried to supersede the queen, and failed, and are now “flying dead.” Sigh.
BUT, my garden is flowering nicely. I see plenty of bumble bee pollinators, and I THINK I recognized some buzz-pollination on tomatoes. I saw ONE honey bee in a squash flower, and one not-a-honey-bee, not-a-bumbler, but definitely a bee in another squash flower.
Roberta,
Well, yes, that is sad. But that’s part of beekeeping, right? I’m happy to hear you have other pollinators. I wonder what the other bee-in-a-squash is?
It looked vaguely mason-bee-ish? But as you know, my taxonomic skills are only just about up to honey bee/not a honey bee. Some years we’ve gotten quite a crop of mason bees in the wood pile, but I haven’t noticed them so much this year. Also, it’s easier to guess mason bees when you can see where they’re living, not just the vaguely honey-bee-sized-but-totally-not-a-honey-bee appearance.
Thanks all. I’ve just completed reading this thread. Vivien has now delivered our third Valkyrie, which will live in Seattle. The other two are in Hood River, OR, with new nucs installed in April. Too early to pull a split for the third hive.
A few observations:
1. It is much more pleasant to ‘work’ a Valkyrie than either my Langstroths or my TBHs (which I had in the past). The advantage over the TBH is that the standard deep frames are easier to extract, and not likely to be burr-combed to the walls. Also, less cross comb due to the guidance of the frame. Using the canvas cover and an additional ‘working cloth cover,’ you don’t need smoke, and the bees settle down as soon as they are ‘under cover.’ The advantage over Langstroths: NO LIFTING HEAVY BOXES! Also, less bee crushing while replacing boxes, or setting them down. You just need to brush them out of the way as you lower the hinged lid.
2. Like others, I noticed condensation in the unoccupied stretch of the hive body, whereas the window near the brood nest is dry. There is also slight mold on the inside of the wooden lid. I don’t know if this is anything to worry about. Naomi says leave it alone, the bees like humidity. Rusty says it’s under the roof, create a little ventilation there. I suppose I could do an experiment, one ventilated roof, one control?
3. Vivien recommended using the sugar boards (sockermats) instead of syrup. I like that. One of the new colonies is consuming 14 lbs of sugar every two weeks, the other consuming about 7 lbs. They don’t seem to mind that it isn’t dissolved in water. (We have a rough concrete fountain nearby for a water source.)
4. It seems it will be harder to identify the queen, as there is so much ‘sump’ space under the frames, in the large slatted area, for her to hide during inspections.
That’s all I’ve got for now.
Hi Daniel! Good to see your comments, thank you for the kind words. Let’s talk about your point #4:
If you had accidentally knocked your Regent clean off of a frame, then you may see her on the slatted area. If the frame is shaken pretty hard, you may see her on the slats, but even so, she would make her way up the wall to return to her place, and to her retinue of “courtiers” (if I may) — those bees cleaning and feeding her, etc.
Rusty should chime in, but it seems to me that if a queen is found completely alone, isolated, wandering around the sump area, then there’s probably a reason she’s being ignored by the workers who normally provide her care. In which case you have a greater problem, right? Perhaps she’s failing for some reason?
Having said that, I had a queen in my garden Valkyrie who earned the nickname, “Wile E. Coyote” because she could speed from frame four to 18 so quickly. She was so sneaky! Keeping in mind a recent article from Rusty about not being too confident of the exact whereabouts of any queen, I’ve not heard of one in the sump area, or on the slats. I think you’re safe, my friend!
Rusty,
My formatting (paragraphs) disappeared in the post above. Feel free to edit for clarity.
Thanks,
Daniel
Daniel,
I’m nearly 13 years into this website and still perplexed by the software. It does what it wants.
Hello everyone! I’m in Victoria, BC, and have a new-found interest in beekeeping. I am registered for the Beekeeping Course 2023 through the Ministry of Agricultural of BC.
I am hoping to build and use a Layens insulated horizontal hive. I’m hoping to start beekeeping in 2023. As a newBEE, I’m still learning and reading lots and am open to others’ ideas and thoughts. I love the idea of the horizontal hive but it seems most everyone uses vertical hives.
Are there any groups on our ‘wet coast’ (west coast, Pacific Northwest) that use horizontal hives? I would like to be able to chat with, ask questions and receive information from like-minded people.
Thank you
Deanna
Deanna,
See this post on the Valkyrie.
Sorry, but i cannot see where you say the price you are charging for the Valkarie Long Langstroth hive. Please advise.
Steven,
See their website here: https://thebeekeeperscarpenter.com/
Good afternoon, Steven:
We’re at http://www.thebeekeeperscarpenter.com and, if you please, the Valkyrie isn’t a Long Langstroth: it is a horizontal hive. : ‘ )
Right around the time of your post my web-master was making changes to my server, but all is well now. Looking forward to hearing from you!
Vivien and Bruce
Hello folks. Well, I’ve spent a very pleasant hour or so reading all the past posting. I’d like to thank you, Rusty, for creating this page. I found so many fine opinions and tidbits of advice to add to what I’ve learned so far about horizontal hives and the “care and feeding” of the residents therein. This spring will be the beginning of my second year of beekeeping. Over the winter I built my first horizontal hive and plan to launch it this spring. I’ve got 2 vertical hives over-wintering in the backyard and plan to split those when the time is right. The original reason for my interest in this type of hive was to experiment with it as an easier way to keep nucs managed. I like the idea of not having to lift anything other than the lid to check in on the girls. After this season I think there may be a very good chance that I will find myself busy building a few more “experiments”. Thanks everyone for all your comments and great descriptions of your experiences as you work at this wonderful skill of caring for bees.
Very much appreciate this discussion board, have had a Valkyrie for one season, starting on second. Posting so as to get updates, if there are any. Thanks!